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Codex, Opus, Gemini try to build Counter Strike

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Re: Codex, Opus, Gemini try to build Counter Strike

#131

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

mexicocitinluez wrote: post #92
Madmallard wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i mean it's the most bare-bones implementation without any engineering considerations it's not something that would ever work industrially people with code-generators they've made could do this just as fast as the AI except their generators could have engineering considerations built-in to them as well so it'd be even better

> people with code-generators they've made could do this just as fast as the AI except their generators could have engineering considerations built-in to them as well so it'd be even better Code generators? Can you be more specific?

I think they're referring to the project scaffolding features that's built-in to framework tooling thesedays (e.g. `ng generate ng ` or `dotnet scaffold`).

There's also the practice of using good ol' fashioned code-generation tools like T4 or Moustache/Liquid templates to generate program entity classes and data-access methods from a DB schema, for example. Furthermore, now there's pretty nifty compile-time code-generation in C# - while languages like F# support built-time type-generation.

...and these are all good tools IMO; but really aren't comparable to an LLM, imo.

Re: Codex, Opus, Gemini try to build Counter Strike

#132

Post by gpm »

gpm wrote: post #40
20k wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find it amazing that people are wiling to use AI beacuse of stuff like this, its been illegally trained on code that it does not have the license to use, and constantly willy nilly regurgitates entire snippets completely violating the terms of use Edit: https://github.com/vorg/pragmatic-pbr/blob/master/local_modu... https://github.com/vorg/pragmatic-pbr/blob/master/local_modu... This looks like where the sou…

As discussed in this thread before you posted this comment, this code wasn't generated from an LLM at all, but simply included in a dependency: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46092904 Unlike your results which aren't exact match, or likely even a close enough match to be copyright infringment if the LLM was inspired by them (consider that copyright doesn't protect functional elements), an exact match of the cod…

conradev found likely the right version of the file here: https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/blob/55b4bbb7ef7e29b214b9...

Re: Codex, Opus, Gemini try to build Counter Strike

#133

Post by freejazz »

Quarrel wrote: post #81
nineteen999 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems like a massive attack surface for copyright trolls. If you think any court system in the world has the capacity to deal with the sheer amount an LLM code can emit in an hour and audit for alleged copyright infringements ... I think we're trying to close the barn door now that the horse is already on a ship that has sailed.

This is a terrible argument, just because of the way the legal system works. If MegaCorp has massive $$$$, but everyone else has small $, then MegaCorp can sue anyone else for using "their" code, that was supposedly generated by an LLM. Most of the time, it won't even get to court. The repo, the program, the whatever-they-want will get taken down way before that. Courts don't work by saying, "oh, but everyone is doin…

In the US you can't sue without having obtained or applied for a registration. If the registration does not grant, you cannot sue. You cannot get a registration for code developed by AI.

Re: Codex, Opus, Gemini try to build Counter Strike

#134

Post by amonith »

mexicocitinluez wrote: post #101
amonith wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That invisible hand exists and had always existed, it's the market. Nobody will arrest you, but the enjoyable work simply slowly disappears. Unless we're talking hobby scenarios, but nobody cares about that.

> That invisible hand exists and had always existed, it's the market. I have never heard a client say "Man, glad you used React". Literally nobody cares what framework you use to build your site. Nobody. If you didn't know any better you'd think all software developers are chained in a basement where they have absolutely no power to do anything but build React sites.

You sound like a freelancer or something. Every single company I interviewed for in the last couple of years as a full stack dev *required* experience in React/Vue/Angular 2+. With old school js/html/css you wouldn't even pass CV screening. Best you could get with that is some wordpress gig for peanuts.

Re: Codex, Opus, Gemini try to build Counter Strike

#135

Post by camgunz »

mexicocitinluez wrote: post #93
camgunz wrote: post #73

This is the kind of thing that's so impressive that if you're not an (experienced) SWE you think "man LLMs are the future, and I am making some major decisions based on this". But you look at the code, and it's essentially gluing three.js and some DB stuff together. There's no lobby, no real interaction logic, no physics apart from what you get from three.js, chatting, commands, map editing, game modes. In other word…

> man LLMs are the future They are. I know a lot of people don't want to admit this, but they are. They're getting better with each release. > But we're learning it's not economical--this is some of the costliest slop we've ever made. Huh? How on earth would you know whether my usage of LLM's has been worth it or not? > Sometimes slop can be useful; maybe you can shape it into something useful Man, I just spent the l…

We're not disagreeing. Your best example is throwaway mocks: temporary slop, which these models are good at, but all the costs and externalities are hidden from you. They're not actually economical to use (even if you don't consider training etc as part of the cost, which is ridiculous as they're some of the costliest things humans have ever done).

Re: Codex, Opus, Gemini try to build Counter Strike

#136

Post by camgunz »

XzAeRosho wrote: post #77
camgunz wrote: post #73

This is the kind of thing that's so impressive that if you're not an (experienced) SWE you think "man LLMs are the future, and I am making some major decisions based on this". But you look at the code, and it's essentially gluing three.js and some DB stuff together. There's no lobby, no real interaction logic, no physics apart from what you get from three.js, chatting, commands, map editing, game modes. In other word…

This is the job a junior developer may deliver in their first weeks at a new job, so this is the way it should be treated as: good intentions, not really good quality. AI coding needs someone behind to steer it to do better, and in some cases, it does. But still hasn't left the junior phase, and while that doesn't happen, there's still the need for a good developer to deliver good results.

There's no serious company who would do anything equivalent to "hey Jr Dev make me a Counterstrike", so examples like these do way more harm than good, because they give the impression of superpowers but this is really just the best they can do.

They're not thinking or reasoning or understanding. It's just amazing autocomplete. Humans not being able to keep themselves from extrapolating or gold rushing doesn't change that.

Re: Codex, Opus, Gemini try to build Counter Strike

#138

Post by fwip »

gafferongames wrote: post #129
fwip wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but you don't need to know how it works to know if it is one. Unless I'm misunderstanding this part: "how can you tell if the AI has actually created one for you or not?" I interpreted that as "I asked the AI to make me one, and now I have one, so it did it," with the operative question being "is it really a multiplayer FPS?"

I'm a professional game developer who has worked on real multiplayer first person shooters. My bar for "is this a real first person shooter" is a lot higher than yours. My bar is, does this actually work and is it best practice for how first person shooters are made by professional game developers. Your bar is, does it kinda look a bit like the thing that I play? Totally different things.

Agree to disagree, then.

Re: Codex, Opus, Gemini try to build Counter Strike

#139

Post by [deleted] »

gafferongames wrote: post #130
stopachka wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that this is not how shooting is implemented in a production competitive shooter, but that wasn't the goal of the post. We wanted to test how far models could go, and I think this current version is the limit in a 2 hour time window.

I think you could have an infinite amount of time and you still wouldn't be able to create a real first person shooter.

[deleted]

Re: Codex, Opus, Gemini try to build Counter Strike

#140

Post by [deleted] »

gafferongames wrote: post #130
stopachka wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that this is not how shooting is implemented in a production competitive shooter, but that wasn't the goal of the post. We wanted to test how far models could go, and I think this current version is the limit in a 2 hour time window.

I think you could have an infinite amount of time and you still wouldn't be able to create a real first person shooter.

[deleted]
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