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EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

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Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#131

Post by graemep »

hexbin010 wrote: post #57
Simulacra wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That could be a result of the Parliamentary style system. With multiple parties - each sharing a part of the government - proposals and alliances can shift rapidly. It all depends on how big the pie becomes for each to get a slice

Power sharing is very rare in the UK. What is more common is a party with a large majority with lots of infighting between factions of their party

Not usual, but two out of the last 20 governments is not what I would call very rare.

its more likely than it has been in a very long time with multiple smaller parties gaining seats. Nationalists in Scotland and Wales have been around a whole, and NI always had its own parties, but on top of that we now have Reform and the Greens making gains.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#133

Post by mikkupikku »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #76
liminvorous wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe 4chan is taking ofcom to court for trying to restrict their first amendment rights rather than blocking the UK, at least I'm still able to access it without a vpn.

> restrict their first amendment rights how is this relevant in the UK

4chan is an American company with no presence whatsoever in the UK. 4chan doesn't even use normal payment processors, relying on crypto instead, so the UK can't even block payments made by UK subjects to 4chan.

In light of this, why would 4chan comply? Contrary to the claim above, 4chan has not actually blocked UK users, and has no reason to do so. They did however get a lawyer to write up a letter telling the redcoats to go fuck themselves.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#134

Post by hn_throw2025 »

surgical_fire wrote: post #112
hn_throw2025 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Identical in every respect other than those with the power to initiate legislation are completely immune to voter displeasure. The Commission have no direct link to the electorate and the your country's (sorry, “state”) Council representatives can hide behind collective consensus.

> Identical in every respect other than those with the power to initiate legislation are completely immune to voter displeasure. You are aware that those with power to initiate legislation are appointed by national governments right? If you are unhappy with how your country posed itself in those propositions, you can and should vote for parties that have different stances.

Your link to the Commission and Council is homeopathic democracy, right?

In the UK with a Parliamentary democracy, unpopular policy ideas can be abandoned. Manifestos are not always adhered to, but they typically include ideas that their canvassers can sell on the doorstep and there is robust media criticism when they abandon their promises. We have a strong history of U turns because our politicians are wary of unpopularity. The most recent big backlash was the Winter Fuel Allowance cut which was proposed by the two parties (with the Treasury pushing for it behind the scenes) and abandoned by both due to deep unpopularity in the Country. Even the budget this week had a run-up where various fiscal changes were unofficially floated through the media, to see which ones had the smallest backlash.

This is completely different to the EU, where the Commission and Council arguably get what they want even if it takes several attempts.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#135

Post by Xelbair »

squigz wrote: post #108
a022311 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nothing substantial has happened to the three texts since last week, it's just that "chat control is back" drives traffic and "Council preparatory body formally approves draft position that got consensus previously but didn't formally get passed because people were fighting over Ukraine stuff for too long" doesn't. While I agree with your point, it's still crucial to raise awareness of Europe's actions. It may be a…

Awareness of the reality, yes, but there's no reason to play people's emotions to get them "aware" of it - or in other words, get them angry about it.

This type of legislation should never ever be proposed in a democratic system, so had disagree.

This is an extremely totalitarian-style move from EU - governing bodies are exempt from the law, meanwhile peasants have to be watched 24/7 for wrongthink, all under guise of protecting the children.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#136

Post by DocTomoe »

piker wrote: post #6

Even living nearby in the UK it blows my mind how quickly the EU proposes, kills and then revives and passes controversial legislation in such a short timeframe.

If you are not really subject to public control and re-election, it makes it much easier.

EU politics don't play much of a role in the media. The older and more cynical I become, the more. I am convinced: that's by design. That way, national politicians can move politically wanted, but publicly unpopular things to Brussels and blame the EU. We are just exposed to that much EU lawmaking news because we are directly affected as a subculture.

During the Brexit referendum days, I learned that British friends of mine did not even know they had EU parliamentary elections - I had to prove to them via Wikipedia AND had to read them the name of their representative (who just so happened to live just down the roar), nor did they care. Made many things more clear to me.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#138

Post by graemep »

mikkupikku wrote: post #128
permo-w wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how aware they are of the damage to the EU's reputation that they're continually creating by repeatedly bringing this back I think this theme of the EU, this lack of taboo against continually bringing unwanted laws until they pass by fatigue, it may well be the death of the institution as a whole. every time they try, every time people hear about it, more and more think worse of the EU, and unlike most weste…

You describe the EU as an undemocratic institution that brings about unwanted laws by fatigue, I understand that perspective. You also say that the collapse of the EU would be insanely sad. I also understand that perspective. What I don't understand is how somebody could have both of these points of view at once, in the same comment no less.

A lot of people think democracy is a bad thing - or that too much democracy is a bad thing.

A lot of people support what they want the EU to be rather than what it actually is. Applies in general - people can love their country without supporting its current government or constitution.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#139

Post by input_sh »

elenchev wrote: post #75
arlort wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not complicated for anyone with above room temperature IQ. And they're almost identical to how it works in the member countries anyway And in a democracy if you don't know how your own laws are made the fault is always yours as a voter

Why do people get so defensive about obviously flawed processes? This reply reads like a 4chan comment written by a frustrated teenager

Quite the contrary, you don't get to claim that the entire process is flawed while failing to demonstrate even the most basic understanding of it.

Re: EU Council Approves New "Chat Control" Mandate Pushing Mass Surveillance

#140

Post by graemep »

Traubenfuchs wrote: post #114
piker wrote: post #6

Even living nearby in the UK it blows my mind how quickly the EU proposes, kills and then revives and passes controversial legislation in such a short timeframe.

The UK keeps a register of non-crime hate incidents and invests its scarce police resources into harassing, arresting and punishing people for twitter posts.

That might well change:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kn54vj55xo.amp

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