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Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

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Re: Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

#131

Post by nrhrjrjrjtntbt »

bks wrote: post #90
CuriouslyC wrote: post #78

Something like this has a very limited shelf life as a product. What users need from chat is very user specific, trying to be the one chat to rule them all is not gonna end well, and as models get more capable each chat experience is going to need to be more customized. Something like this could have a nice future as an open source chat framework for building custom UIs if it's well made and modular, but that isn't g…

I've been using Onyx (and Danswer before it) for over a year, and I'd push back on this. We have Freshdesk, Bookstack, Google Drive, YouTrack, and Slack all connected. It seamlessly answers questions like: "What's Max's GitHub username?" "I need wire transfer instructions for an incoming wire" We also index competitors' helpdesks and KB articles to track new features they're rolling out. Our tech support team uses it…

> "I need wire transfer instructions for an incoming wire"

Ooooof. Careful with that.

Re: Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

#132

Post by echelon »

> open-source

How do you plan to make money? I'm very serious about this question.

I'm in an adjacent (but highly non-LLM field) and I'm grappling with this myself.

Selling compute or being a middle man and paying for API use seems like a low-margin game. It'd have to be with giving convenient search access to org data or something along those lines? Perhaps expanding into some kind of agent product?

My creativity on making money with LLMs is pretty sparse as I'm in the graphics world. But I'm certainly interested in "making money on aggregation" ideas.

Also, are you worried about competitors forking your code?

Re: Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

#133

Post by echelon »

tomasphan wrote: post #6

This is great, the value is there. I work for a F100 company that is trying (and failing) to build this in house because every product manager fundamentally misunderstands that users just want a chat window for AI, not to make their own complicated agents. Your biggest competition in the enterprise space, Copilot, has terrible UI and we only put up with it because it has access to email, SharePoint and Teams.

> I work for a F100 company that is trying (and failing) to build this in house because every product manager fundamentally misunderstands that users just want a chat window for AI

If you're a non-tech company, why doesn't your org dictate a single model provider? How do these decisions work internally, and how to the departments consume them? (Are they consuming the tools?)

> make their own complicated agents.

Asking a non-tech employee to make an agent sounds like hell.

> we only put up with it because it has access to email, SharePoint and Teams.

Ah, that's how a third party can make money. Bake in external org-wide knowledge and enable search.

Re: Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

#134

Post by echelon »

crocowhile wrote: post #66

In a landscape where every week we have a different leading model, these systems are really useful for the power users because they keep the interface and models constant and allow to switch easily using API via openrouter or naga. I have been using openwebui which is under active development but I'll give this a try.

> allow to switch easily using API via openrouter or naga

Ideally not "open"router? It's not open, and don't they charge a margin?

Re: Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

#135

Post by echelon »

fragmede wrote: post #53
fhd2 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It really does, by any definition I've ever heard. I suppose the authoritative one would be [1]. A common "trick" for commercial open source software is to use a copyleft license, which restricts redistribution as part of commercial products, and to offer a paid license to get around that. [1]: https://opensource.org/osd

GNU disagrees. > Many people believe that the spirit of the GNU Project is that you should not charge money for distributing copies of software, or that you should charge as little as possible—just enough to cover the cost. This is a misunderstanding. > Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge as much as they wish or can. If a license does not permit users to make copies and sell them, i…

> > Actually, we encourage people who redistribute free software to charge as much as they wish or can. If a license does not permit users to make copies and sell them, it is a nonfree license.

This is interesting. If it had a limitation on reselling or a non-commercial / non-compete clause, it'd be almost perfect.

Today lots of companies come in and take open source software and "steal" the profits. (You could argue that theft is invalid since the license allows for this.) This makes it hard for the authors to build a durable business. Certainly difficult to build into a large-scale company.

Open source needs a better mechanism for authors to make money with what they create while still enabling user freedom to do what they want with the software - modify, reuse, publish changes, etc.

"Open core" is one strategy, but it feels like stepping around limitations in the license. Just spelling out "we want to make money in a defensible way" and giving user freedoms seems like a step in the right direction. More companies would probably opt to share their code if this happened.

Re: Launch HN: Onyx (YC W24) – Open-source chat UI

#138

Post by motoxpro »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #92
jstummbillig wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. This has both APIs as well as connectors. One of the reasons I use Google Workspace as SaaS is because of the extensive API, that gives me the flexibility I need with a great starting point (and continued development, that I continue to benefit from).

Yes, but imagine a chat app that's designed for accountants, that has widgets for accounting, and it's set up for accounting workflows. That's _HUGE_ but not something that a "one chat to rule them all" is going to just go and do. You could use that same example for lab technicians and any other role.

Same "verticalization" argument people made for search in the early 2000s. There's a lot more use cases for tech than just vertical SaaS apps.
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