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Windows GUI – Good, Bad and Pretty Ugly (2023)

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131–140 of 203 posts

Re: Windows GUI – Good, Bad and Pretty Ugly (2023)

#131
post #67

8 for Windows 11? An OS that includes ads in the Start menu, made with React. I'm not even mentioning right-click, which has basically two views: you open it and see some uselessly chosen tools, and you still need to open the old version (with the old design, breaking design consistency) to access actually useful things. Viva Windows XP!

Does the end user care that the system is made with React? What is the tangible negative impact? My start menu doesn’t have ads, it really isn’t hard to manage that sort of thing. OneDrive is fully uninstalled, Copilot is fully uninstalled, I find my system to be quite clean. And if you don’t like the start menu, there are ways to replace the start menu entirely with something else. Good luck replacing entire major e…

I care that it's made with React/React Native or other garbage web frameworks. By definition adding layers between native C/C++ Native Win32 will make it slower and use more RAM.

Stop justifying laziness and mediocrity. Microsoft does this just so they can hire cheap javascript monkeys out of colleges. AKA people who shouldn't be writing code and the reason a chat application now uses 1GB of RAM and nobody seems to care or understand why such waste is both bad and stupid.

Re: Windows GUI – Good, Bad and Pretty Ugly (2023)

#132

Was anyone surprised? This follows the classic pattern. - XP was good - vista was bad - 7 was good - 8 was bad - 10 was good - 11 is .....drumroll please.... bad.

I think it's generous to say anything after 7 was good.

8 was just so offensively bad with getting rid of the start menu and replacing it with a fullscreen tablet UI, 10 was celebrated for backtracking on that.

But it was also famous for shoving bullshit like Candy Crush into everyone's start menu. I haven't forgotten that.

Re: Windows GUI – Good, Bad and Pretty Ugly (2023)

#133
If you set out to build a practical UI from first principles using 1995 technology, I think you'd end up with something a lot like Windows 95. It's like a checklist of all the things we should be doing.

Luminance contrast is used to create a hierarchy of importance. Most backgrounds are medium grey, so that all text and icons are low-importance by default. Text fields, dropdowns, check boxes and radio buttons are black-on-white: a subtle call to action. Window, button and scrollbar edges always include pure white or pure black. Active toggle buttons have a light grey background, sacrificing the "3D shading" metaphor in the name of contrast.

Most colour is limited to two accents: pale yellow and navy blue. Small splashes of those colours are mixed together in icons to make them recognisable at a glance. Deactivated icons lose all colour. The grey, yellow and blue palette is highly accessible for colour-blind people, and the yellow and blue accents also occupy unique points in the luminance space (the yellow sits between white and grey, the blue sits between grey and black).

Despite all of this restraint, the designers weren't afraid of high contrast and high saturation; white text on a navy blue background shows up very sparingly, always as a loud "YOU ARE HERE" beacon. The designers understood that navigation is more important than anything else.

The graphics are strictly utilitarian, with no unnecessary texture or visual noise. The entire UI is typeset using just two weights of 9px MS Sans Serif. The only skeuomorphic elements are some program and folder names, a tiny resizing grip at the corner of each window, and a simple simulation of depth when push buttons are clicked. 3D edges are used to make the scene layout easier to parse, not to make it look physical or familiar.

Related components are almost always visually grouped together, using borders, filled rectangles and negative space. (I suspect the designers would have used fewer borders and more fills if the palette of background colours had been a little larger.) Dark and light backgrounds are freely mixed in the same UI, which requires both white and black text to be present. The depth of recursion (boxes in boxes in boxes...) is fairly shallow. Homogeneous collections of components are always enclosed in a strong border and background, which enables sibling components to be displayed with no borders at all between them.

All of these tasteful design choices were fragile, because you can only preserve them if you understand them. Windows XP made the background colours lighter, which reduced the available dynamic range of luminance cues; it tinted many backgrounds and components yellow or blue, which made chrominance more noisy; it introduced gradient fills and gradient strokes, which were less effective at grouping components; it added soft shading to icons, which made their shapes less distinct; and so on. Almost every change broke something, and so after just one major revision of the UI, most of the magic was already gone.

Re: Windows GUI – Good, Bad and Pretty Ugly (2023)

#134
post #32

I'm surprised nobody caught this, but both the screenshot for Windows 8.1 is not Windows 8.1, it's Windows Threshold, the development phase of Windows 10. The specific screenshot they show is the very first start menu they cobbled together for Threshold, which would later be redesigned again before shipping as Windows 10. The screenshot is also showing off early adaptations of Windows 8 apps running in movable window…

They actually backported this start menu to Windows RT which makes it even less sense considering Windows RT was mainly used on tablets and the start screen is better for these devices.

Re: Windows GUI – Good, Bad and Pretty Ugly (2023)

#135
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's slower. It's laggy. The taskbar and menus need to be native code of the highest optimization. Anything less than instantaneous means that PMs, managers, coders and everyone there should not have a job working on OSes if they can't get this simple idea through their thick skulls.

I've shared this on HN before, but starting with Windows 11, they seemingly started making the new UI essentially a separate process that runs on top of the existing Windows 10 UI and just modifies it. I learned this from a video where a guy was seeing how much of the Program Files folder you can delete before Windows breaks, and at some point it reverts to the Windows 10 UI. https://youtu.be/BVIN_PJu2rs?t=565

This is even more insane than I thought. Truly madness. Everybody involved with that should be fired and sent to the moon as an experiment on how long does the human body survive naked on both the dark side and the bright side of the moon. At least we will learn something from those experiments.... (it's a joke but the point stands. Those people shouldn't ever be allowed to touch computers.)

Re: Windows GUI – Good, Bad and Pretty Ugly (2023)

#136

8 for Windows 11? An OS that includes ads in the Start menu, made with React. I'm not even mentioning right-click, which has basically two views: you open it and see some uselessly chosen tools, and you still need to open the old version (with the old design, breaking design consistency) to access actually useful things. Viva Windows XP!

It's not made in React, only the "recommended" section is made with React Native which compiles to native XAML. No web technologies involved. And yes I will debunk this every time I see it :) .

[flagged]

Re: Windows GUI – Good, Bad and Pretty Ugly (2023)

#137
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My start menu doesn’t have ads, it really isn’t hard to manage that sort of thing. I don't care. It is completely unacceptable to have ads in a product I paid them for . It doesn't matter how easy it is to remove, that doesn't fly. You act like people are hating on Win11 for no reason, but truthfully you're just ignoring the reasons to hate it.

I haven’t given Microsoft a dime since Windows 7. Users who buy a computer have the OS preinstalled. Millions of people never activate it. The product is effectively free. It’s a commercial OS but people can’t get over it. There isn’t a single commercial OS out there that doesn’t try to sell you something at some point. Maybe that is unacceptable to you and I respect you for that. But it’s a commercial OS and always…

Preinstalled OS doesn't mean free OS. You already paid for it when you bought the computer. You shouldn't see ads. Ever.

Re: Windows GUI – Good, Bad and Pretty Ugly (2023)

#138
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's slower. It's laggy. The taskbar and menus need to be native code of the highest optimization. Anything less than instantaneous means that PMs, managers, coders and everyone there should not have a job working on OSes if they can't get this simple idea through their thick skulls.

I've shared this on HN before, but starting with Windows 11, they seemingly started making the new UI essentially a separate process that runs on top of the existing Windows 10 UI and just modifies it. I learned this from a video where a guy was seeing how much of the Program Files folder you can delete before Windows breaks, and at some point it reverts to the Windows 10 UI. https://youtu.be/BVIN_PJu2rs?t=565

They also don't run animations in a separate process since Windows 10 which means that under high load everything lags. In Windows 8.1 everything was buttery smooth thanks to DirectUI. macOS and iOS also run animations separately.

Re: Windows GUI – Good, Bad and Pretty Ugly (2023)

#139
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's slower. It's laggy. The taskbar and menus need to be native code of the highest optimization. Anything less than instantaneous means that PMs, managers, coders and everyone there should not have a job working on OSes if they can't get this simple idea through their thick skulls.

I've shared this on HN before, but starting with Windows 11, they seemingly started making the new UI essentially a separate process that runs on top of the existing Windows 10 UI and just modifies it. I learned this from a video where a guy was seeing how much of the Program Files folder you can delete before Windows breaks, and at some point it reverts to the Windows 10 UI. https://youtu.be/BVIN_PJu2rs?t=565

Isn't this how pretty much every evolution of windows design has worked? at least from what I remember the windows 10 ui is built on top of aero (though admittedly I don't use windows and have never interacted with it for anything serious)

Re: Windows GUI – Good, Bad and Pretty Ugly (2023)

#140
post #37
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this article is only grading the styling of the OS GUI elements, not the functionality (or lack thereof) of the OS itself.

Windows 11 is far from the best at that though. It doesn’t even look good. I know taste is subjective, but a better comparison is the contemporaries of the time or at least taking a step back to consider the entire aesthetic. If so, ironically, I think Vista should win.

one thing I think windows 11 does well is the icon design. The kinda glassy look they have is the perfect middle ground between the glossy hyperrealistic icons of yesteryear and the bland lifeless minimalist icons that became common after ios 7
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