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Dark Mode Sucks

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Re: Dark Mode Sucks

#131

Post by Spartan-S63 »

IndySun wrote: post #91
evanjrowley wrote: post #10

Without taking an extreme or absolutist stance on this issue, I generally agree with the author here. Dark mode should be reserved for after sunset and before sunrise. The eyes are adapted to see daylight levels of light during daytime. If your ambient lighting and screen don't match this, then you're not using your body in the way it's evolved to function. What we need more of are screens with anti-glare and a wide…

>evan, I agree. Hate the dark. Dark is hard to see. Light is easy to see. I use light at every opportunity. Dark partially grew out of an interest in saving battery power on early oled screens, but dev's noticed a certain demographic drawn towards the dark look.

Dark versus light, in general, is fascinating. My fiancee and I have really different light sensitivities. She'll struggle to see in dimmer/only natural light indoors and I'll be able to see fine. Turning on overhead lighting really bothers me and causes a stress-like reaction. I'm much more amenable to artificial light after sunset and if it's indirect, diffuse light (i.e. a standing lamp).

Re: Dark Mode Sucks

#132

Post by godelski »

HumanOstrich wrote: post #127
godelski wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> let's not pretend it's just one variable change. On Wikipedia it literally is: change 'skin-theme-clientpref-day' to 'skin-theme-clientpref-os'

I don't think you know what you're talking about. That looks like the setting you would change specifically on the Wikipedia site. There would be additional code and CSS behind the scenes to enable that functionality. For example, where is the color palette defined? The discussion is about site owners making light/dark mode configurable. Your first reply reads like you're saying that Wikipedia has an article for how…

I might be too naïve but

  > For example, where is the color palette defined?
There's literally an option for "auto", "light", and "dark" on each page. If changing the default value from "light" to "auto" is not a single variable change then honestly I believe there are bigger issues. There's a master template in their code where they set the default option...

I'm saying it's silly to have an "auto" option and not making it the default. I'm not sure how this is anything but laughable. But again, if I'm being naïve here, I'm happy to hear the reasoning. If I'm naïve then it means I'm in need of being informed.

  > That wouldn't be helpful anywhere outside of Wikipedia.
Well that specific complaint was about Wikipedia. I'll stand by that Wikipedia should change from a default value of "light" to "auto". Unless you have a compelling argument against this?

There are other websites that have a toggle and don't read the browser or os theme. That might require an additional few lines to do so but let's also not pretend that's hard.

If your website doesn't have both a light and dark theme, that's out of scope of my complaint. My complaint for those is: if using a template site that you didn't create, use one with this feature, there's millions. Else (you didn't use a template), please add this feature, the fact that these fights exist is irrefutable evidence that people value both options. It's evidence that there's very strong preferences and the work isn't useless (though may be hard to measure its effectiveness)

  > Maybe if you link to the Wikipedia page you're talking about that would help.
You can visit any article on Wikipedia and you will see the options for this on the right side.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_News

Re: Dark Mode Sucks

#133

Post by mvdtnz »

neilv wrote: post #95

Dark-mode and light-mode are both so popular as user preference, that apps and sites should make sure at least stock light and dark modes work well, out of the box. Noticeable examples of needing improvement: * Default light and dark themes of programs/apps and sites that have illegible low-contrast color combinations. Very common, sometimes within themes they control entirely but apparently never tested both light a…

If your sleep is important to you (and it definitely should be) you should not be watching movies or browsing bluesky immediately before bedtime. If you are doing so, I don't want to hear complaints about how these apps are affecting your sleep. It's on you.

Re: Dark Mode Sucks

#134

Post by lawn »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #128
lawn wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen a browser force dark mode on you as they all seem to default to light mode. Same with the OS. It's also easily configured in Firefox.

I think that's the point of misunderstanding. At the risk of sounding like an LLM, this isn't about a "mode," it's about the infuriating choice made by web designers who hardwire their pages to dark themes. So, no, it is not "easily configured in Firefox" or anything else running on the client side. When I visit various sites and have to squint at the text, that's 100% on the site designers. It may be fixable by vari…

It's hard to symphatize with the "dark mode hater" when it's only the very minority of websites that enforce dark mode without respecting user choice, as most websites enforce light mode without respecting user choice (including HN).

Re: Dark Mode Sucks

#135

Post by m463 »

evanjrowley wrote: post #10

Without taking an extreme or absolutist stance on this issue, I generally agree with the author here. Dark mode should be reserved for after sunset and before sunrise. The eyes are adapted to see daylight levels of light during daytime. If your ambient lighting and screen don't match this, then you're not using your body in the way it's evolved to function. What we need more of are screens with anti-glare and a wide…

I have older eyes. I'm sure someday in the next few years I will have cataract surgery.

Light mode is lower contrast for me, and is more difficult to read text, especially at the end of the day.

Dark mode is a relief, and much easier to read for me.

I miss it in the situations when it is not available, like PDFs with small grey text on a white background, more so on a small screen like a phone.

Some people think dark vs light is opinion, but for some it is not.

more: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/dark-mode/

- dark mode may present some advantages for some low-vision users

- in users with normal vision, light mode leads to better performance most of the time.

- applications meant for long-form reading (such as book readers, magazines, and even news sites) should offer a dark-mode feature

Re: Dark Mode Sucks

#136

Post by HumanOstrich »

godelski wrote: post #132
HumanOstrich wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you know what you're talking about. That looks like the setting you would change specifically on the Wikipedia site. There would be additional code and CSS behind the scenes to enable that functionality. For example, where is the color palette defined? The discussion is about site owners making light/dark mode configurable. Your first reply reads like you're saying that Wikipedia has an article for how…

I might be too naïve but > For example, where is the color palette defined? There's literally an option for "auto", "light", and "dark" on each page. If changing the default value from "light" to "auto" is not a single variable change then honestly I believe there are bigger issues. There's a master template in their code where they set the default option... I'm saying it's silly to have an "auto" option and not maki…

> There's literally an option for "auto", "light", and "dark" on each page.

That's not defining a color palette, which would probably go in CSS. You're describing a UI selector. It doesn't "define" anything related to implementing the functionality.

You're still missing the point of this entire thread. Go back and look at the top-level comment. I think there might be a language barrier here or something, so I'm going to bow out. Good luck.

Re: Dark Mode Sucks

#137

Post by jenadine »

gingerceo wrote: post #85

Dark mode actually saves a lot of energy and thus battery time on mobile devices. It's more practical, cheaper, and good for the environment. I don't get the hate in this article.

Only with OLED or AMOLED screens. (And even then, not sure i would say "a lot")

Re: Dark Mode Sucks

#138

Post by godelski »

HumanOstrich wrote: post #136
godelski wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I might be too naïve but > For example, where is the color palette defined? There's literally an option for "auto", "light", and "dark" on each page. If changing the default value from "light" to "auto" is not a single variable change then honestly I believe there are bigger issues. There's a master template in their code where they set the default option... I'm saying it's silly to have an "auto" option and not maki…

> There's literally an option for "auto", "light", and "dark" on each page. That's not defining a color palette, which would probably go in CSS. You're describing a UI selector. It doesn't "define" anything related to implementing the functionality. You're still missing the point of this entire thread. Go back and look at the top-level comment. I think there might be a language barrier here or something, so I'm going…

  > That's not defining a color palette, which would probably go in CSS.
Yes?

The css is already defined. Dark mode works!

The problem is which theme is loaded by default.

Please, tell me how I'm being dumb. I don't want to be. But you've given me nothing to change my mind. I'm a native English speaker, but I don't think it's English that's the problem here. I don't think you understand what I'm saying, though if you feel the same then I hope you can recognize I'm trying my best to establish an understanding. I have no idea why you're making a big fuss about the CSS definition as we're strictly talking about Wikipedia where that definition is already defined and I honestly do not know how to be any more clear that my complaint is to which template is loaded by default.

Re: Dark Mode Sucks

#139

Post by npteljes »

I mean, there is not much substance in the article, but I agree. I don't like dark mode too much either. I read that people with astigmatism, so cylindrical sight, don't handle dark mode well. I'm not sure how true this is, but it definitely applies to me. I can't seem to properly focus on many dark mode UIs - with spreadsheet software being the worst.

What I found is that using light mode, reducing screen brightness, adequate ambient lighting, and applying a brown filter works really well. Each of these components add an immediate relief when I'm applying them.

Funny thing is, I'm experimenting with dark mode in some places. In my KDE, it seems to work well for me in general OS UI, and in my file manager. Also works well on my phone after dark.

What I especially dislike is the mixing of dark and light modes. For example, when everything is light mode, only the terminal, and the IDE are dark. Fuck that. For this reason, for many years, I had my terminal in light mode as well.

Re: Dark Mode Sucks

#140

Post by npteljes »

neilv wrote: post #97
g-b-r wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And are so wrong it hurts

Yes, but we could at least have good discussion prompted by that, until someone flagged the article. I wasted my time typing a constructive comment, while the article was flagged in the interim. Now I'm just going to close HN and not waste more time.

I have good news for you, the article is back in business, and the discussion is happening!
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