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All praise to the lunch ladies

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Re: All praise to the lunch ladies

#131

Post by mikkupikku »

HeinzStuckeIt wrote: post #40
jimbokun wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today, libraries are more amazing and more necessary than ever. With online services constantly changing what is or isn't available, having a library with physical media, books, and even their own services for borrowing audio books and other online media, can be a real asset when trying to watch a specific movie or TV show or listen to a particular song the streamers decided to stop offering, or moved to a different…

For getting media made inaccessible, you could just do what all those many countries around the world without good public libraries do: pirate it. Talk to anyone serious about cinema as an art form in Eastern Europe or the developing world, and Bittorrent was their school, not a library or a paid streaming platform. In any event, I agree that public libraries are good, but it is easy to see that momentum in the USA f…

You should stop believing that you can learn what America is like by reading about it online or in the media. Homeless scum making libraries unusable is extremely rare in America, if in fact it ever happens at all. I regularly visit libraries everywhere I go and only a few times did I ever see anything even like that and it was limited to one or two street people wandering around in the lobby or hidden off in some corner. Even in Seattle where the number of street junkies sprawled out on sidewalks was far too high for my standards of decency, the public library downtown was absolutely pristine. You might sometimes see a bum in the ground floor going for the toilets, but that's it. They otherwise avoid the library, it has nothing for them. Porn? They have phones I guess, I've never once seen a computer room overflowing with street coomers. I'm not saying it never happened somewhere at some time, but it's not a regular thing.

Also, I don't just visit big flagship libraries in big cities. Libraries in metro suburb areas and also libraries in small rural working class towns are places I've been to many times without seeming anything like what you've described. All across America, libraries are clean and designed to be safe and inviting places for families of all ages.

Of course what I've written is just a other online account which you shouldn't blindly believe. You shouldn't have beliefs one way or the other about American libraries unless you've actually visited American libraries yourself. If you aren't even American, then the status of American libraries shouldn't be something you pretend to be informed about. It shouldn't even be something you pretend to have an opinion about. It's like my opinion on Luxemburg supermarkets; I have none! I've never been in one and they're far from my life so I can't just walk into one. I have no opinion on them, have no reason to pretend to have an opinion, have no reason to believe I can form meaningful opinions about them by reading about them online. Somehow people can't manage this when it comes to America.

Re: All praise to the lunch ladies

#132

Post by margalabargala »

sevg wrote: post #88
poink wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we pretending that optimizing for taste is a bad thing? It’s obviously bad to eat super salty “ultraprocessed” food all the time, but it’s not like the salt is the primary problem To take OP’s example, I’d much rather kids eat generously salted broccoli that is “optimized for taste” rather than unsalted mac & cheese, regardless of whether they just throw it away (which I probably would, too)

> It feels like you’re using “industrial food” as a pejorative, but the best chefs in the world also do not skimp on salt Your first comment that kicked off this sub-thread missed the context. We’re talking about school food kids eat every day, not occasional restaurant meals. So the appeal to authority of “best chefs in the world” doesn’t make sense here. My point wasn’t that taste is bad, it’s that when you optimiz…

> My point wasn’t that taste is bad, it’s that when you optimize solely for taste like restaurants do (using high salt, high fat etc without disclosure), you can create health problems when consumed daily.

Your implication is that high salt in meals causes these health problems. It does not. You might as well say high vitamin, high nurrient meal.

Don't conflate the effects of eating ultraprocessed foods with the effects of eating salt just because one often contains the other. What you're doing is complaining about the health effects of water, having observed that soda is mostly water.

Re: All praise to the lunch ladies

#133

Post by wtcactus »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #128
wtcactus wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternate theory: their parents are too lazy to actually prepare proper food for them. Healthy food actually costs less than pre processed crap. But it does take a lot more time and effort to prepare.

And here we are, back to the poor people are lazy argument. That didn't take long.

Well, some of us refuse to indulge in this permanent complete lack of accountability for one’s choices and actions, that people like you try to push.

Re: All praise to the lunch ladies

#134

Post by sevg »

margalabargala wrote: post #132
sevg wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It feels like you’re using “industrial food” as a pejorative, but the best chefs in the world also do not skimp on salt Your first comment that kicked off this sub-thread missed the context. We’re talking about school food kids eat every day, not occasional restaurant meals. So the appeal to authority of “best chefs in the world” doesn’t make sense here. My point wasn’t that taste is bad, it’s that when you optimiz…

> My point wasn’t that taste is bad, it’s that when you optimize solely for taste like restaurants do (using high salt, high fat etc without disclosure), you can create health problems when consumed daily. Your implication is that high salt in meals causes these health problems. It does not. You might as well say high vitamin, high nurrient meal. Don't conflate the effects of eating ultraprocessed foods with the effe…

Nice strawman. I didn’t mention ultra-processed foods :)

If anyone else is reading this and wants to do their own reading about the effects of salt, I can point you to the WHO, the NHS, the FDA, one of many highly cited studies, and wikipedia:

https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/sodium-redu...

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/food-types/salt-in-you...

https://www.fda.gov/food/nutrition-food-labeling-and-critica...

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267338249_Global_so...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_salt

Though, margalabargala, if you don’t believe in science then I can’t help you :)

Re: All praise to the lunch ladies

#135

Post by carlosjobim »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #41
Coffeewine wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pertaining to that observation, I really liked this section: > In 2022, California became the first of a half dozen or so states to offer free school meals to all students, regardless of family income. Dillard supports free meals for all students with an emphatic, “Yes, yes, yes!” Food should not be based on income, she says: “It should be part of the school day. Your transportation is of no charge to students. Schoo…

It seems odd to me that anyone would need an argument in favor of free school lunch. School is mandatory between certain ages and it's free. Let's just make meals free as well. And I'm not sure how school buses are out of step with "the modern world." What are you proposing? Uber or something? For the wealthiest country in the history of the world, we sure seem to spend a lot of time discussing why we shouldn't spend…

The argument would be that parents have an obligation to feed their children. That's the least you could expect of them.

Re: All praise to the lunch ladies

#136

Post by pxc »

pxc wrote: post #51
HeinzStuckeIt wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For getting media made inaccessible, you could just do what all those many countries around the world without good public libraries do: pirate it. Talk to anyone serious about cinema as an art form in Eastern Europe or the developing world, and Bittorrent was their school, not a library or a paid streaming platform. In any event, I agree that public libraries are good, but it is easy to see that momentum in the USA f…

The university I went to did start restricting hours (requiring student IDs for more of them than it used to) during my time there, apparently to try to divert some homeless people away at night. But I've never actually been to a library that didn't feel safe, clean, and comfortable when I was there, including that one. I certainly never saw any signs of drug use, or anyone browsing pornography.

I also want to add that being homeless isn't the same thing as being disorderly, frightening, unfriendly, or smelly.

Over the years, I've had friends who were homeless (depending on the person, before or during the times that I've known them). Sometimes they have a lot of difficulty getting bank accounts, jobs, or apartments in part because of documentation issues or bureaucratic tasks that they need internet access to solve. Libraries are a lifeline that helps homeless people rebuild stable lives.

Libraries should be sanctuaries and feel safe for everyone, including the most precarious people in society.

Re: All praise to the lunch ladies

#137

Post by sharts »

renewiltord wrote: post #93
cpursley wrote: post #16

Having a school lunch in a "poor" former eastern block country as a guest was really eye opening. It was actually good, fresh made borscht, veg dishes that tasted good (wasn't steamed)! Like, I would order and enjoy it at a restaurant level no-bad. Who knew that was even possible? From what I can tell, a non-crappy school lunch is the norm all over Europe. Why can't America have that?

The usual truth is that labor costs more in the US than it does anywhere else. A lot of things are just what you get if you have cheap labor. As an example, all over South Asia you can get top-notch personal cooking and cleaning on a daily basis. In the US you cannot. It's because everyone is rich in the US. The embodied cost of labor in everything you get is quite a large fraction. The median household income in Pol…

The labor costs more because other assets cost more — namely, housing, food, clothing.

Re: All praise to the lunch ladies

#138

Post by tenthirtyam »

hexbin010 wrote: post #94
Auracle wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never understand why Michelle Obama’s plan included low salt. It’s not like kids have major hypertensive issues.

I'd have eaten way more salad as a kid if my mum didn't treat salt as if it were the devil itself. There is nothing enticing about raw cucumber, lettuce and tomatoes on the side of a plate. A pinch of salt and pepper, small amount of olive oil, oregano and lemon? Now we're talking.

> raw cucumber, lettuce and tomatoes on the side of a plate

Jeepers, I love a plain salad - no salt, no vinegar, nothing at all added is fine. Maybe a little olive oil but no problem without it. It's all about what you're used to.

We (self, wife, children) stopped adding salt to our cooking years ago - pasta, rice, potatoes are cooked without salt and they taste fine. As you might expect, when some people eat at our place I stare in impolite amazement as they empty the salt shaker onto their plate and, on the other hand, when I eat elsewhere the food is sometimes so salty as to be barely palatable for me.

Re: All praise to the lunch ladies

#139

Post by onraglanroad »

seer wrote: post #114
jandrewrogers wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salt pills were a thing for people working in hot climates. The military requires electrolyte augmentation in such conditions. These days we use fancier electrolyte blends but it is still largely salt. If you are on a multi-day fast it is the primary thing you need to replenish aside from water. I do some pretty serious backcountry trekking in the summer. You can feel when your electrolytes are low after several hour…

The idea came from linking salt to heart failure, but last I checked the link was a confounding variable - e.g. bad diet leads to problems that themselves lead to high cholesterol. It was not the salt in the food but the quality of the nutrition itself. However blaming salt was quick and easy so that’s what the people with money did. Historically speaking salt has been such a scarce and valuable resource. I have read…

No, excessive salt causes high blood pressure. It is definitely a problem. Limit your intake to 6g a day or less. That's plenty for flavour.

Source: https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/food-types/salt-in-you...

Re: All praise to the lunch ladies

#140

Post by trollbridge »

Auracle wrote: post #69
AstroNutt wrote: post #66

Great read! I sent this story to my girlfriend who works as a lunch lady in a small West Texas town for the last 10 years. She said they are still able to provide nutritional food for the kids. Her mother had an aunt that worked at the same school in the 50's and 60's and they made everything from scratch. Vegetables were bought locally too. She also mentioned the kids hated the whole wheat pasta and breads when Mich…

I will never understand why Michelle Obama’s plan included low salt. It’s not like kids have major hypertensive issues.

Low-salt was a fad for a while in defining what “healthy food” is, much like low fat, low saturated fat, and high-carb were for quite a while, and “plant based” still largely is.
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