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The disguised return of EU Chat Control

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Re: The disguised return of EU Chat Control

#131

Post by HeinzStuckeIt »

iso1631 wrote: post #111
whitehexagon wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>How does society resolve this kind of abuse of the democratic process? Swiss style democracy with public referendums?

plebiscite -> populism -> bad outcomes People are not able to be experts in everything they are asked to vote on, thats why we delegate it, just like people delegate their healthcare, plumbing, flying to a holiday destination, growing food, etc. People en-mass are just as easy to manipulate as elected members, if not easier.

Can you point to examples of bad outcomes in Switzerland’s referendums? I mean unequivocal examples, of the sort that would convince everyone here that that model is undesirable as a whole.

Re: The disguised return of EU Chat Control

#132

Post by chimeracoder »

Humorist2290 wrote: post #34

(6) Online child sexual abuse frequently involves the misuse of information society services offered in the Union by providers established in third countries. In order to ensure the effectiveness of the rules laid down in this Regulation and a level playing field within the internal market, those rules should apply to all providers, irrespective of their place of establishment or residence, that offer services in the…

> (6) Online child sexual abuse frequently involves the misuse of information society services offered in the Union by providers established in third countries.

It's quite wild to see child sexual abuse continue to be cited as a justification for far-reaching, privacy-invading proposals, allegedly to empower government actors to combat child sexual abuse.

Meanwhile, we have copious and ever-increasing evidence of actual child sexual abuse being perpetrated by people with the most power in these very institutions, and they generally face few (if any) consequences.

Re: The disguised return of EU Chat Control

#135

Post by g-b-r »

iso1631 wrote: post #122
binary132 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what a ludicrously insane take. how can you not believe in privacy? do you think what you do in your home should be private, or do you think it’s fine for someone to put cameras in there? If you do, please feel free to invite them to do so; do not feel free to invite them to put cameras in my home.

Whether you or I want it or not is irrelevant Over the last 5000 years it's been very rare for plebs to have any privacy. For a brief period from ww2 through to the early 21st century power shifted to the plebs, but since the 1980s that power has shifted back to the feudal barons, and our rights will eventually regress. But the SP500 will be at record highs so everyone will be told they should be happy.

What??

For 5000 years there were no surveillance cameras or ways to surveil communications! (other than the little that was said by mail)

Re: The disguised return of EU Chat Control

#136

Post by throw-qqqqq »

mrtksn wrote: post #85

Denmark has a month and a half as EU presidency to go. I still don't get why they want this to be their legacy so badly.

Denmark mostly has authoritative politicians in government. Pragmatic and without ideology. The misguided tools believe they are doing us all a big favor.

They handwavingly dismiss all privacy-related criticism with “well our experts say something else!” and insist there are no privacy issues - but at the same time require exemption for their own caste.

Re: The disguised return of EU Chat Control

#137

Post by klabb3 »

This can backfire bigly for the EU. The whole union is sustained on shared values and interests. Sneaking in surveillance is extremely offputting for the sentiment towards EU in many circles. Every member state has plenty of skeptics who want to brexit and this is gasoline for them. And rightly so. This isn’t a fluke from some misinformed non-technical stray politician who ”wants to save the children” (yes, they exist too), but rather a deliberate anti-democratic sabotage of core human rights.

In a nation state, it’s easier to pull off authoritarian shifts, because citizens will not usually revolt over such things alone. But the EU relies on sustained support and a positive image. There are already at the very least 10s of thousands EU skeptics created from the last wave alone, and probably much much more to come.

Zooming out, I think this is the time when the EU is needed the most, given the geopolitical developments. Both Russia and China are drooling about a scattered Europe consisting of isolated small states. That makes it more infuriating. Someone, ideally the press, needs to dig into the people behind this and expose them.

Re: The disguised return of EU Chat Control

#138

Post by zelphirkalt »

PeterStuer wrote: post #31

Eternal vigilance is needed to stop this. Good luck! It will take just one (manufactured) crisis.

There is also an alternative, which is the way problems with governments used to get solved in the past. Not that we should aim for that to be necessary, but it often seems that our politicians are hellbend on getting there quickly. I guess it's all "to hell with the consequences!" for them.

Re: The disguised return of EU Chat Control

#140

Post by nmeofthestate »

I guessed the term Chat Control had to be made up by opponents of the legislation, so searched for the real name. The official name of the legislation is: “Proposal for a Regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council laying down rules to prevent and combat child sexual abuse” (COM/2022/209 FINAL). It is often referenced more simply as the “Child Sexual Abuse Regulation” (CSA Regulation).
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