Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 259 posts

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#131

Post by mrtesthah »

sedatk wrote: post #127
steve_taylor wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Governments aren’t just rolling out Digital IDs. They’re rolling out the platform to enable them to require that you authenticate with a range of apps and websites, ostensibly to keep children safe, with the real purpose being to link your unique identifier to all your online activity. They can then easily build an overall picture of who you are from that ID. Potentially, all this data can be fed into a pre-crime AI.

They’re already doing that without digital IDs. I don’t see how this affects the other.

Why would you want to streamline that process for them even more?

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#132

Post by bootsmann »

steve_taylor wrote: post #126
pat2man wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does this apply to a digital version of an official government ID? The government already has all this data.

Governments aren’t just rolling out Digital IDs. They’re rolling out the platform to enable them to require that you authenticate with a range of apps and websites, ostensibly to keep children safe, with the real purpose being to link your unique identifier to all your online activity. They can then easily build an overall picture of who you are from that ID. Potentially, all this data can be fed into a pre-crime AI.

> Governments aren’t just rolling out Digital IDs. They’re rolling out the platform to enable them to require that you authenticate with a range of apps and websites, ostensibly to keep children safe, with the real purpose being to link your unique identifier to all your online activity.

This is just straight up not true for the EUDI which is probably the most serious and advanced approach to digital ID. The wallets are decentralized and the government does not see the individual authentication transaction in any way.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#133

Post by Muromec »

throwaway290 wrote: post #130
stavros wrote: post #39

I'm really wary of these initiatives, because perfect law enforcement is how society ossifies. Imagine if we could prosecute all homosexual tendencies when they happened, or all interracial relationships, or any other antiquated law. Society would never progress. What happens if the government can now perfectly enforce that people under 18 can't do X or Y?

Also, if it's easy to check your ID, there will be more and more checks of your ID. And that's not great...

I live in one of the countries where id is mandatory to have and to carry.

Not counting times when id was exchanged for another id, I believe I was asked to show the physical card maybe twice (in six years), one of those was for voting, the was in healthcare. Guess how white I am, lol.

Digital thingy zo, that needs button pressing every time I log into whatever government or goverment-related things.

So you are kind of right

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#134

Post by Muromec »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #74
sublimefire wrote: post #14

There was a post from trailofbits blog recently about how passport crypto works. Kind of related here. I wonder if this is some zero knowledge proofs here or what? Reading the passport and its chip implies some terminal authentication capabilities coming from Apple devices. Passport would not allow reading sensitive data from the chip unless the terminal is valid. Another question is if Apple is allowed to read your…

I still find it bonkers reading passport doesn't validate it against it some centralised database. Like, $1 in your bank account and a credit card is more advanced than a passport.

Passports have a signed data blob to ensure its authentic and usually a revocation lust too.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#135

Post by Muromec »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #128
tjohns wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Passports are inherently decentralized, which is needed because not all countries cooperate with each other - or have the same budget for technology/security. It's really way something at global scale could work. (There are national-level databases, but presumably not every country has access to every other country's database.)

I struggle to imagine international airport without a credit card reader. Maybe some borders in some countries could've struggled before cheap ubiquitous internet, but not anymore. And even then it's their problem. Countries don't need access to database. They need to validate public key / hashsum is valid (or something along those lines).

Thats a thing actually

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#136

Post by Muromec »

tjohns wrote: post #125
runako wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's normal for police at a traffic stop to take your license back to their car while they write a ticket or whatever. Until laws change, having your only license on your phone means handing your phone to an officer until they are satisfied they no longer need it.

States that have implemented mobile drivers licenses are starting to issue handheld readers to police officers, precisely so what you describe doesn't happen. The people building this know nobody wants to hand their phone over to the police.

Surely police would never say their reader is broken and never make it your problem

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#137

Post by sedatk »

mrtesthah wrote: post #131
sedatk wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’re already doing that without digital IDs. I don’t see how this affects the other.

Why would you want to streamline that process for them even more?

Because anti-privacy laws can be fought, and the convenience, privacy, and reliability benefits of these applications can stay.

I’m against “let’s hold all progress because a few states can go backwards faster than they’ve been” perspective.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#138

Post by v3xro »

throw0101d wrote: post #22
xd1936 wrote: post #12

I am never handing my phone to a cop.

> I am never handing my phone to a cop. The point is that you don't have to: > To present a Digital ID in person, users can double-click the side button or Home button to access Apple Wallet and select Digital ID. From there, they can hold their iPhone or Apple Watch near an identity reader, review the specific information being requested, and use Face ID or Touch ID to authenticate. "hold … near … review" If you're…

When buying alcohol in a physical store, in the UK we have the "Challenge 21/25" schemes https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/facts/information-about-alcohol... such that yes if you look very young the cashier/automated checkout assistant will ask for your ID but in most cases, they will approve without checking anything. I do not see any positives to requiring identification for all transactions.

Re: Digital ID, a new way to create and present an ID in Apple Wallet

#139

Post by v3xro »

0x457 wrote: post #86
op00to wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could then decide not to buy the alcohol. Unless you are severely addicted, you will not die if you don't purchase alcohol.

Yes, but the point is that we already know (app permissions, cookie tracking consents) that "ask only what you need to function" isn't how sellers operate. Also, you need an ID to buy some OTC medicine and to pick up some prescribed medicine. As well some other cases when ID needs to be presented, but those probably require more than just DOB anyway.

Again, citing the UK here, if you go to your doctor and get a prescription, all you need to pick it up is your name + address (said verbally over the counter) - no ID needed. I do not have statistics for the false pickup rates but I very much doubt it is anything to worry about.
Post reply on HN