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Ticker: Don't die of heart disease

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Re: Ticker: Don't die of heart disease

#131
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar... Meta-analysis conclusion: This literature-based meta-analysis did not find evidence for the benefit of statin therapy on all-cause mortality in a high-risk primary prevention set-up.

A meta-analysis that only includes 11 studies on statins is immediately suspect. There have been a lot of studies on statins. If a meta-analysis comes along and only cherry picks a couple of them, something is up.

That’s fair.

This is totally unsourced now but I did a deep dive quite a while ago now and it seemed to me that studies largely found that statins after a heart attack helped all cause mortality (though not by a ton), but if they were prescribed to someone before a heart attack it wasn’t nearly as clear. Considering how they often make people feel it seems like people should be a bit skeptical.

Re: Ticker: Don't die of heart disease

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Hang on a second. This guy is making a big big claim. The central point of his article is that he went to a doctor who followed the guidelines, tested him and found he wasn't at risk for heart disease. But then he went to another, very expensive concierge doctor, who did special extra tests, and discovered that he was likely to develop heart disease and have a heart attack. Therefore he is arguing that THE STA…

His evidence is also kinda weak. And appeal to authority largely about someone who he's paying to tell him he has health problems. The incentives aren't aligned. I also disagree that the 50the percentile is the breakpoint between healthy and unhealthy. There's a lot more to deciding those ranges beside "well half of the population has better numbers"

ApoB is a better indicator of heart problems and his ApoB was bad, unlike his LDL-C. ApoB is not some imaginary thing made up by a quack doctor.

Re: Ticker: Don't die of heart disease

#133
post #77
post #63

Long story short care about your health. If you don't do already, maybe now is a good time to start. What you put into your body: no processed food, cook yourself, lots of variety of veggies and fruits, little meat, little alcohol. What you do with your body: regular exercise, low stress, enough sleep. What you do with your mind: good social environment, good relationships. And an apple a day keeps the doctor away!

Not all things labeled "processed foods" are bad, it seems. There are enough scientists that say the distinction is often hypocritical (example from an article: a factory-made carrot cake is labeled UPF, but a home-baked one isn't, even though they're practically the same thing). Sugar, fats, and lack of fiber make factory-food unhealthy, they say. Others add that we can't feed the growing metropolitan areas without…

> : a factory-made carrot cake is labeled UPF, but a home-baked one isn't, even though they're practically the same thing

If you stepped inside a food factory you would see how false that statement is

Re: Ticker: Don't die of heart disease

#134

I am not a statin skeptic--or rather, I don't want to be a statin skeptic. I've done the research and it makes sense to me, but I still feel some social and psychological pressures to reject statins. When I see that it is widely accepted that ApoB is better to measure than LDL-C, but the industry continues to measure LDL-C, but not ApoB, I wonder why. It makes me skeptical. When I see that the purpose of statins is t…

> When I see that it is widely accepted that ApoB is better to measure than LDL-C, but the industry continues to measure LDL-C, but not ApoB, I wonder why. It makes me skeptical. ApoB is shaping up to be an incremental improvement in measurements, but health and fitness influencers have taken the marginal improvement and turned it into a hot topic to talk about. This happens with everything in fitness: To remain topi…

numbers often quoted in favor of statins use relative instead of absolute risk. when seen in absolute terms there is little case for statins except in some possible particular cases. they also do little, if anything, when it comes to life extension — the expected lifespan of a statin user is often estimated to be four days longer than that of those who do not use them. not only is this essentially statistical noise, it discounts the lowered quality-of-life side effects experienced by many who have been put on statins.

Re: Ticker: Don't die of heart disease

#135
post #21

A key takeaway is: don't be afraid of taking statins if you need them. I fell for the "statins are bad" BS for years and have paid the price.

What price have you paid?

I now have a cardiologist and just had an MRI to check on the state of my aorta, as a recent calcium scan brought up concerns.

I've now been on rosuvastatin and ezetimibe for several years with zero noticeable negative effects. I'm hoping that this with other behavior modification can help stave off further damage for a while.

Re: Ticker: Don't die of heart disease

#136
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Walking and eating sensibly is free. Even a balance oatmeal, rice & beans with infrequent meat servings would defend against heart disease better than expensive medicine, at less than $1 / day.

Lentils/legumes are cheap. There is probably no better bang for the buck. Yogurt is also cheap.

Agree. All the best foods are cheap. It’s a myth that healthy food is expensive. Most of the produce isle is decorative.

Re: Ticker: Don't die of heart disease

#137
post #100

The "be an advocate" thing is both true but also incredibly selfish and egotistical. If everyone did that, the whole system would grind to a halt. Doctors aren't in a rush because they enjoy so, they are because they're already overworked. 1 out of every 25 patients (their family) demanding extra attention is possible although still a burden. 21 out of every 25 is not possible.

My assumption was that we have to be our own advocate because the system itself is non-ideal.

My takeaway: if bloodwork were broader, covered more markers, there would be one less reason to have to advocate for your own health.

I find it odd that you would instead "advocate" for not being an advocate for your own health? Are we waiting for a friend to say, "Hey, you're looking a little rough."

Re: Ticker: Don't die of heart disease

#138

Key Takeaway: Get a CT or CTA scan, and if you can afford it go for the CTA with Cleerly. There is a reason that we don't recommend getting imaging for everyone, and that reason is uncertainty about the benefit vs the risks (cost, incidentalomas, radiation, etc, all generally minor). Most guidance recommends calcium scoring for people with intermediate risk who prefer to avoid taking statins. This is not a normative…

Right. Hang on a second. This guy is making a big big claim. The central point of his article is that he went to a doctor who followed the guidelines, tested him and found he wasn't at risk for heart disease. But then he went to another, very expensive concierge doctor, who did special extra tests, and discovered that he was likely to develop heart disease and have a heart attack. Therefore he is arguing that THE STA…

> But then he went to another, very expensive concierge doctor, who did special extra tests, and discovered that he was likely to develop heart disease and have a heart attack.

It’s scarily common in medicine for doctors to start specializing in diagnosing certain conditions with non-traditional testing, which leads them to abnormally high diagnosis rates.

It happens in every hot topic diagnosis:

When sleep apnea was trending, a doctor in my area opened her own sleep lab that would diagnose nearly everyone who attended with apnea. Patients who were apnea negative at standard labs would go there and be diagnosed as having apnea every time. Some patients liked this because they became convinced they had apnea and frustrated that their traditional labs kept coming back negative, so they could go here and get a positive diagnosis. Every time.

In the world of Internet Lyme disease there’s a belief that a lot of people have hidden Lyme infections that don’t appear on the gold standard lab tests. Several labs have introduced “alternate” tests which come back positive for most people. You can look up doctors on the internet who will use these labs (cash pay, of course) and you’re almost guaranteed to get a positive result. If you don’t get a positive result the first time, the advice is to do it again because it might come back positive the second time. Anyone who goes to these doctors or uses this lab company is basically guaranteed a positive result.

MCAS is a hot topic on TikTok where influencers will tell you it explains everything wrong with you. You can find a self-described MCAS physician (not an actual specialist) in online directories who will use non-standard tests on you that always come back positive. Actual MCAS specialists won’t even take your referral from these doctors because they’re overwhelmed with false cases coming from the few doctors capitalizing on a TikTok trend.

The same thing is starting to happen with CVD risks. It’s trendy to specialize in concierge medicine where the doctor will run dozens of obscure biomarkers and then “discover” that one of them is high (potentially according to their own definition of too high). Now this doctor has saved your life in a way that normal doctors failed you, so you recommend the doctor to all of your friends and family. Instant flywheel for new clients.

I don’t know where this author’s doctor fits into this, but it’s good to be skeptical of doctors who claim to be able to find conditions that other doctors are unable to see. If the only result is someone eating healthier and exercising more then the consequences aren’t so bad, but some of these cases can turn obsessive where the patient starts self-medicating in ways that might be net negative because they think they need to treat this hard to diagnose condition that only they and their chosen doctor understand.

Re: Ticker: Don't die of heart disease

#139

Going deep on biomarkers, blood tests, and debates about optimal levels is okay for some people who derive motivation from obsessing over topics, but I’m starting to notice a trend where people obsess about these things for a couple years before burning out and moving on to the next topic. The best thing you can do for yourself is to establish healthy diet and lifestyle habits that are sustainable. A lot of people wh…

I learnt a great trick about exercise: find a podcast or audio book that you really enjoy listening to. Here's the trick: you're only allowed to listen when you're exercising.

Also with food and drink: place friction between the treat and yourself. The easiest example is to not have biscuits / alcohol in the house.

Bonus tip: alcohol free beer is really good these days.

Re: Ticker: Don't die of heart disease

#140
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Hang on a second. This guy is making a big big claim. The central point of his article is that he went to a doctor who followed the guidelines, tested him and found he wasn't at risk for heart disease. But then he went to another, very expensive concierge doctor, who did special extra tests, and discovered that he was likely to develop heart disease and have a heart attack. Therefore he is arguing that THE STA…

If there are two contradictory conclusions you should ask for the third one, independent on the previous ones.

The year is 1846, and a doctor has a radical new idea: doctors should wash their hands between performing autopsies and delivering babies!

You're not sure of whether this is a good idea or not, so you ask various physicians, and the consensus is unanimous: the very suggestion is offensive, do you think doctors are unclean?

A clear conclusion has been achieved.

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