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Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

theregister.com

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Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#131

Post by p0w3n3d »

Frannky wrote: post #62

The problem with these types of technologies is that you will be at the mercy of whoever uses them. It's like chat control, censorship, gun laws, etc. You can't control how they will be leveraged. I lived in California for some time a few years ago, and it was a mess, so I understand people being okay with this type of stuff if it will make them more secure, but it's a very risky slippery slope. The other thing is th…

Big old cable connected to people's heads to control their movements and their thoughts would make some people feel more secure, but this is not what we're going to agree to. That's not enough that some people feel not secure...

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#133

Post by DoctorOetker »

yannyu wrote: post #122
jandrewrogers wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The blood sample isn’t a DNA sample right up until the point they decide to sequence it. This is the same legal doctrine allowing the government to systematically collect all of your personal data without violating your privacy as long they don’t look at what they collect without a warrant. The government has granted themselves an option on your personal data that can’t be revoked.

I agree with you in principle. And I agree that the government has been steadily eroding our privacy. And I agree that California probably shouldn't be retaining these samples forever. However, the likelihood of being able to "sequence" the biomatter on a blood spot is quite low, and the probability of getting good signal out of it continues to go down over time. It'll still remain useful for various kinds of spot te…

This is wrong, the sample efficiency of DNA collection, amplification and sequencing technology has gone way up, to the extent that for example bubonic plague could be identified from DNA samples in the dental plaque of skulls which are multiple centuries old.

Also your statement directly conflicts with the purported confirmed utility of law enforcement getting warrants to use said samples.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#134

Post by DoctorOetker »

postflopclarity wrote: post #34
jedberg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a particularly incendiary way of putting this information out there. Was it inaccurate?

the implication was misleading, yes. the implication being that California has database of its citizens' genetic data. when the reality is that CA has a _physical sample_ of blood.

A collection of cars is also a collection of steering wheels, a collection of tires, a collection of seats, a collection of engines a collection of seats, ...

as blood contains white blood cells, and these cells tend to contain DNA, yes a collection of identified blood samples is also a collection of DNA (molecules).

A DNA collection doesn't need to have been sequenced to qualify as a DNA collection.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#135

Post by DoctorOetker »

chneu wrote: post #33
jedberg wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a particularly incendiary way of putting this information out there. Was it inaccurate?

It's very inaccurate. OP made it sound like Cali was genome sequencing everyone born in the state and then storing that. What's really going on is they're doing routine blood tests. So yeah, pretty inaccurate.

It didn't sound like that at all, it just says DNA samples are collected and stored. The implication that such DNA in such samples can be sequenced after the fact is not novel at all, every time DNA is sequenced, it is first collected.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#136

Post by b00ty4breakfast »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #71
rzerowan wrote: post #67

One thing that i would prefer in biometrics would be that the iris/fingerprints get treated as what they are publicly available and easily obtainable data. At worst using it a a secret key is similar to using your name as a hidden variable for authorisation, whent it sshould strictly be a identification token.And once leaked you cant revoke it . Back on topic , a Gattaca type system is unbelievably bleak and when(not…

It'll be treated just as stupidly as Social Security numbers, and soon we'll have biometric data breaches. >sigh Aside: Social Security numbers should be public now, too. That ship sailed a long time ago and it should be recognized.

poor netsec aside, at least I don't leave my social security number lying around every time I touch a door knob.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#137

Post by yannyu »

DoctorOetker wrote: post #133
yannyu wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you in principle. And I agree that the government has been steadily eroding our privacy. And I agree that California probably shouldn't be retaining these samples forever. However, the likelihood of being able to "sequence" the biomatter on a blood spot is quite low, and the probability of getting good signal out of it continues to go down over time. It'll still remain useful for various kinds of spot te…

This is wrong, the sample efficiency of DNA collection, amplification and sequencing technology has gone way up, to the extent that for example bubonic plague could be identified from DNA samples in the dental plaque of skulls which are multiple centuries old. Also your statement directly conflicts with the purported confirmed utility of law enforcement getting warrants to use said samples.

You don't think that it's easier to identify whether something is bubonic plague than it would be to identify whether two DNA samples are related? Especially when one of them is aged such that it's not even a whole sequence anymore?

Yes, our ability to manipulate and read DNA has increased significantly in the past 40 years. But you can't create data from something that isn't there or has been corrupted beyond recovery.

And as far as the efficacy of police goes, I don't think that a warrant is sufficient to prove that there's confirmed utility in getting these samples.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#138

Post by nkmnz »

bdamm wrote: post #126
Buttons840 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if people just publicized their own social security number, and then whenever they had to deal with "identity theft", they just pointed out that their SSN is public information and so it was negligent for the company to believe it was them just because of a SSN.

Most doctor's offices just use my name and birthday to assume authorization to transfer sensitive medical information. I kinda feel like privacy is massive "emperor has no clothes" aspect of society.

This behaviour is just because their IT system doesn’t allow regular users to search for names, just for birth dates. Then they pick you by name from a list of people with that birthday.

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#139

Post by _w1tm »

miki123211 wrote: post #124
rzerowan wrote: post #67

One thing that i would prefer in biometrics would be that the iris/fingerprints get treated as what they are publicly available and easily obtainable data. At worst using it a a secret key is similar to using your name as a hidden variable for authorisation, whent it sshould strictly be a identification token.And once leaked you cant revoke it . Back on topic , a Gattaca type system is unbelievably bleak and when(not…

Biometrics can be a secure secret key, as long as there's a trusted guard manning the reader, ensuring that you're showing your real fingerprint / face and not a fake.

Why bother with the scan if you can have a perfect guard in place?

Re: Uncle Sam wants to scan your iris and collect your DNA, citizen or not

#140

Post by _w1tm »

elisbce wrote: post #111
ronsor wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Most people already share this data in the form of photos posted online. 2. So people don't treat it as a "secure secret," because we've been down this road more than once before.

That's so stupid. Just because I posted a video on TikTok doesn't mean someone should be able to go to the city's public website, look me up on a yellow page and download my photo id and fingerprints.

That’s not what the poster meant.

What treating this biometric info as public means is that it won’t be accepted as valid proof of identity. Just because you posted a video on TikTok shouldn’t mean that a scammer can take out a loan in your name.

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