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NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

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Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#131

Post by phatskat »

skybrian wrote: post #103
bastawhiz wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is at least the devil we know, here. Google has left these devices essentially completely unusable. You're not trading up Google because Google already abandoned these devices by shutting off the lights. Even if you don't agree with how robust their service is, they're offering you the ability to turn what's effectively e-waste into an operable device.

Why do you say it's unusable? Our Nest thermostat seems to be working fine as a normal (offline) thermostat. I don't see a reason to replace it. I'm not even sure when I would want a network-enabled thermostat. We inherited it from the previous owners.

I liked mine because my home/away schedule isn’t “routine”. It was much easier to have it known when we left the house and it would automatically turn down, and I could warm the place up when we were headed home which is great when it’s below freezing out.

Edit to mention that I was out of town one winter and my thermostat gave me an alert that my apartment had reached 40F! With my cats in there and a blizzard happening while I was four states away, I was able to ask a friend to walk over and check it out. Turns out my balcony doors had blown open during the storm, thankfully my cats wanted nothing to do with the snowy outside but I can’t imagine if they had been in that situation for the 3-4 days it would be before I got home.

Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#132

Post by rikkert »

pandora-health wrote: post #15

If your boiler supports OpenTherm then get this thermostat controller https://github.com/Alexwijn/SAT Weather comp + low load comp + PID which means your room temperature works at the precision range supported by your temperature sensor. In my case, within 0.02 Celsius. Saves energy and makes your house more comfortable. Operated via home assistant. See real time data in Grafana https://gasboiler.grafana.net/public-d…

Thanks!

Which OpenTherm device would you recommend?

Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#133

Post by pandora-health »

rikkert wrote: post #132
pandora-health wrote: post #15

If your boiler supports OpenTherm then get this thermostat controller https://github.com/Alexwijn/SAT Weather comp + low load comp + PID which means your room temperature works at the precision range supported by your temperature sensor. In my case, within 0.02 Celsius. Saves energy and makes your house more comfortable. Operated via home assistant. See real time data in Grafana https://gasboiler.grafana.net/public-d…

Thanks! Which OpenTherm device would you recommend?

Checkout NodoShop, the WiFi board version.

Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#134

Post by mr_machine »

baby_souffle wrote: post #93
matthewfcarlson wrote: post #79

Are they good options for cloud-freeish thermostats? I have two units (one for upstairs and one for downstairs). We have two nests but they’re so frustrating. I’ve lobotomized the “smart behavior” as much as a I can. I want a thermostat that connects to the home assistant I already have

> Are they good options for cloud-freeish thermostats? There are connected thermostats that do not feature a WiFi radio. I don't like zwave (I would really prefer WiFi with a HTTP or MQTT interface) but there is no thermostat that a) has a modern/working WiFi radio and b) a documented API. Venstar is the only company that makes WiFi with an API but they seem to use the cheapest possible WiFi radios and I could never…

I've got two of the Venstar Colortouch thermostats running locally with Home Assistant. They were spendy and their interface feels dated and clunky, but they've been totally reliable for me.

Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#135

Post by sandos »

pandora-health wrote: post #15

If your boiler supports OpenTherm then get this thermostat controller https://github.com/Alexwijn/SAT Weather comp + low load comp + PID which means your room temperature works at the precision range supported by your temperature sensor. In my case, within 0.02 Celsius. Saves energy and makes your house more comfortable. Operated via home assistant. See real time data in Grafana https://gasboiler.grafana.net/public-d…

Aawww, this looks so nice!

I really would want a more clever solution for our heating: district heating that goes int our "legacy" high-temperature old radiators, and also a secondary system with under floor heating but with a limited temperature. The problem is the "secondary" system is much bigger and heats most of the house, but is more or less unable to change its temperature since its always "capped" at the max since its driven from a high-temperature system, the shunt can not lower the temperature, also its a dumb one. So we have bang-bang thermostats everywhere for the floors which works, but is not at all optimal.

Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#136

Post by khamidou »

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #128
khamidou wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The user is going to win after going out of their way to install an aftermarket binary blob on their deprecated thermostat? Seems like a stretch no?

If the user was told by a smarty-pants computer person to do it, they'll assume it works and is safe. On the other hand, if something goes really wrong, and the user can convince a judge that the mystery binary blob was involved? And the author never said anything about it possibly being unsafe? Then the court can decide that the user had a valid assumption that it would be safe, and the author won't be able to prove…

In that case wouldn't the blame lie in the smarty-pants person? When the web site says everywhere that it's beta quality?

Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#137

Post by mechanicalpulse »

gnuplustoejam wrote: post #130
mechanicalpulse wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that's certainly a take. Solid state relays using optoisolated MOSFETs have been around for fifty years. Mechanical relays are overkill for signal switching as in HVAC thermostats, IMHO, but you do you. Anecdotally, I have a first generation Nest and haven't had a problem. Maybe some of the earlier hardware had fewer protection against misuse (e.g., with non-24VAC systems or otherwise incorrect installation), bu…

Sounds like something Nest engineers would have said. It's not "signal switching", you see. HVAC equipment is as old and varied as you can imagine, and there is higher current than you think running through those terminals, powering all sorts of nasties, oil burner relays, damper motors, crude AC contactors causing voltage spikes etc. HVAC low voltage power is as dirty as can be. No one took this into account, they w…

Nest is hardly the only thermostat out there using solid-state relays. Have you considered the possibility that they did take it into account and they deliberately chose to use SSRs instead of electromechanical relays? Have you considered the possibility that they were concerned about the impact that mechanical relays may have on the RF, especially if "there is higher current than you think running through those terminals"? Have you considered the possibility that they were worried about making the first one fatter than it already was?

In my heat pump, none of the thermostat wires directly control the contactors. They all run into a logic board that applies logic like time delays, temperature-controlled defrost cycling, and active protection lockouts for the compressor. I mean, there's a seven-segment LCD on the logic board for system troubleshooting. The air handler has a variable speed blower as well.

I understand that HVAC equipment varies wildly, but if you try to solve every possible problem or scenario and target every possible customer, you'll never make it to market.

I also understand that I am the target demographic.

Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#138

Post by emodendroket »

skybrian wrote: post #103
bastawhiz wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is at least the devil we know, here. Google has left these devices essentially completely unusable. You're not trading up Google because Google already abandoned these devices by shutting off the lights. Even if you don't agree with how robust their service is, they're offering you the ability to turn what's effectively e-waste into an operable device.

Why do you say it's unusable? Our Nest thermostat seems to be working fine as a normal (offline) thermostat. I don't see a reason to replace it. I'm not even sure when I would want a network-enabled thermostat. We inherited it from the previous owners.

Mostly I can fiddle with it from my bed rather than going downstairs.

Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#139

Post by emodendroket »

skybrian wrote: post #105
danimal88 wrote: post #23

It is pretty outrageous that a company who purports to care about the environment turned this into a pile of garbage for the average user to save on some cloud hosting or devops. Or even worse, to sell the next generation.

It's not e-waste unless for some reason you want to throw out a working thermostat just because it doesn't have network access.

Probably for the same reason you bought one in the first place rather than using the cheap one that your home already had.

Re: NoLongerEvil-Thermostat – Nest Generation 1 and 2 Firmware

#140

Post by mattmaroon »

yummypaint wrote: post #127
mattmaroon wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can edit the schedule on the device but it isn’t fun. The UI is just basically a dial that can click. And there’s no copy paste.

Yep I have this and it's total garbage. The scheduling options feel designed to troll, serious MacBook wheel vibes. No way to temporarily disable the schedule if you're going out of town. Either turn your HVAC off entirely, or delete the entire schedule and manually reenter the whole thing when you get back (who doesn't love life-wasting menu diving after a long trip?).

Yeah. It’s awful. And there’s no reason they couldn’t have given us one last firmware update that just at bare minimum allows us to use it with HomeKit or Alexa or whatever else.
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