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Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

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Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#131
post #78
post #28

After all networked smartphones and computers were placed under control of the regime, resistance hackers relied on microcontrollers harvested from ordinary household devices like smart lamps and vape pens to slowly rebuild the covert but resilient mesh internetwork that became known as FreeNet.

Someone write a novel please. Not sure who will be more appropriate: Stross (more fun?), Stephenson (more of a slog through the first 600 pages, then an abrupt 180 and frenetic action in the last 100 with newly introduced, yet game-changing characters?).

> Stephenson (more of a slog through the first 600 pages, then an abrupt 180 and frenetic action in the last 100 with newly introduced, yet game-changing characters?).

With the six pages in the middle where he may as well say "Right, I had to learn a lot of algebra for compiler optimisation to make this bit work, so now you get to learn it too"

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#132
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone write a novel please. Not sure who will be more appropriate: Stross (more fun?), Stephenson (more of a slog through the first 600 pages, then an abrupt 180 and frenetic action in the last 100 with newly introduced, yet game-changing characters?).

Fits well with William Gibson. The Turing-police will visit anybody who consumes more than 5 yearly vapes.

I see there's a TV adaptation of Neuromancer coming out.

I'm a little disappointed that they didn't have it directed by an AI reconstruction of David Lynch, because that would have been so very fitting.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solid-state batteries will never be suitable for all applications, even if they should suffice for the most frequent of them. Batteries with liquid electrolyte will always be able to provide greater power (i.e. greater current) within certain physical constraints. This should not matter for smartphones or laptops, but it should matter for many things with motors.

Whats going on with liquid electrolytes that ensure they "always be able to provide greater power"?

It's the common problem with almost anything in physics or chemistry.

The Good Stuff has some horrible flaw that makes it incredibly dangerous.

When we invented refrigerators first, they used ammonia as a refrigerant which was awesome at moving heat around. It's still used industrially but people die from ammonia leaks. Then they swapped it for freon, which was just about as good at moving heat around, but rotted holes in the ozone layer. So they got replaced with R-134 which wasn't as bad for the ozone layer (but still not great), slightly more toxic, and still quite nasty stuff to handle.

At present the best bet for refrigerants turns out to be good old propane, which if anything is a little too good at moving heat around (and your evaporator will freeze if you're not careful), reasonably non-toxic (don't breathe it in, but unlike ammonia a tiny amount in a room won't dissolve your lungs), and its only real downside is that it burns. People are worried about using C3 or C5 (pentane) refrigerant in cars, but the worst that would happen is you'd release about a deodorant can's worth of the stuff into something that's already on fire and contains maybe 70 litres of petrol. Your petrol tank is a bomb, made of a leaky plastic bucket full of explosive. The aircon having a cupful of LPG in it is not your problem in an accident.

Thus it is with batteries.

It turns out that one of the best kinds of batteries you can make in terms of longevity, power density, and stability is a couple of bits of lead in a bucket of sulphuric acid. They work great. They're in production today, and will probably be forever. Your car has at least one (mine has three, a massive one up front for starting the engine and a couple of smaller ones in the back for running things like the radios and inverter when I'm stopped).

However, lead compounds are pretty nasty, sulphuric acid is pretty nasty, they're heavy, they will stop working if you leave them discharged, and in general people would like something smaller, less corrosive, and less dependent on digging up vast areas of China to pull poisonous dust out of the ground.

So we have NiCads (oh dear, cadmium, one of the nastiest poisonous metals because it's poisonous all by itself - it doesn't need to be complexed to something organic to get in you), then NiMH (cheaper, non-toxic, and more-or-less a drop-in replacement for NiCads in any given application). Then we've got the various rechargeable lithium batteries which can do exciting things when damaged.

But for high power density, low cost, and and high current applications where you don't have to worry about carrying them or tipping them over, you're going to be stuck with lead in a bucket of acid for a while I suspect.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! That's precisely why we designed the battery, to let people be in control of their own stuff! Our batteries have now be running for close to 3 years on shared mobility ebikes, so they are well-tested indeed! If you want more infos, send us an email at contact@gouach.com :)

At 199EUR without the cells, I'm _almost_ tempted to go for it. It's a bit steep but the savings on the cells would already make the whole thing overall viable. If it had the ability to charge from USB-C as a contingency solution, it would be an impulse buy.

Indeed! We've been asked for the USB-C quite a bit so we might do that in a future version, but it increases the BOM price for our shared mobility fleet customers which are quite price sensitive!

Indeed it's 199 eur, but it's high-quality, certified, comes with a waterproof and fireproof casing, connected, with real-time safety alerts, and when you'll eventually need to change the cells, you'll only pay 50 eur to refill your battery!

Compared to that, an equivalent Bosch battery goes for 500 to 700 eur (for the same quality). We're even compatible with Bosch gen 2/3/4 (non-smart)

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whats going on with liquid electrolytes that ensure they "always be able to provide greater power"?

It's the common problem with almost anything in physics or chemistry. The Good Stuff has some horrible flaw that makes it incredibly dangerous. When we invented refrigerators first, they used ammonia as a refrigerant which was awesome at moving heat around. It's still used industrially but people die from ammonia leaks. Then they swapped it for freon, which was just about as good at moving heat around, but rotted hol…

> They're in production today, and will probably be forever.

I suspect their days are numbered, because they have become _far_ more expensive to dispose of, and that's only going one direction.

> But for high power density, low cost, and and high current applications where you don't have to worry about carrying them or tipping them over, you're going to be stuck with lead in a bucket of acid for a while I suspect.

You'd think, but they _haven't_ seen a lot of use in, say, grid-scale applications.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#137
post #26

The amount of e-waste in general is truly nauseating. My employer just cleaned 30 years of “junk” out of our in house IT “tech shop” and the number of working but obsolete computers that went out (many simply because they couldn’t support Windows 11) is sickening to me. The amount of carbon generated from the mining activities, steel production, etc. that went into producing “obsolete” computers has to absolutely dwa…

> We could replace so many data centers with old desktops.

If this is true and could be done economically, why is nobody doing this right now?

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#138

Tiny standards in legislation (I'm looking at you EU) around the e-cig designs to ensure simple battery recycling would solve this. Then you make the consumer pay for the battery separately and you are done.

Britain has already banned disposable vapes. You aren't allowed to sell a vaping device unless it can be re-used hundreds of times - everything on the market has to have a charging port and a user-replaceable coil or pod. Rightly or wrongly, the hardware is cheap enough that some people will treat a refillable vape as if it were disposable. Other than criminal enforcement, I'm not sure how you'd meaningfully change t…

> Other than criminal enforcement, I'm not sure how you'd meaningfully change the incentives for someone who is willing to throw a £5 electrical device in the gutter because they can't be bothered to take it home, recharge it and refill it with £0.20 worth of liquid.

Here in Denmark we are forced to pay a small deposit when buying bottles/cans of beverages, which is returned (in cash) when you return the bottle. The consequence is that you find zero beverage bottles lying around, since they’re collected and redeemed.

If we put a, say, similar $10 deposit on these vapes, I think we’d see the same effect here. One problem is that they’re smaller, so they’re harder to find for collectors.

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#139

Tiny standards in legislation (I'm looking at you EU) around the e-cig designs to ensure simple battery recycling would solve this. Then you make the consumer pay for the battery separately and you are done.

Back in my day our batteries came in a bunch of standard sizes and you could just pop them in and out of a compartiment in your electronic devices. There were collection points at any grocery store, there was even a points scheme so you could get a video game from handing in used batteries [0]. Or you could get rechargeable ones.

I'm being somewhat tongue in cheek, this still exists but I don't understand why they don't make lithium batteries in AA / AAA size or whatever for things like vapes. Battery collection, replacement and recycling is / was a solved problem.

[0] https://archive.org/details/BATTERYCHECK

Re: Building a 2.5kWh battery from disposable vapes to power my workshop [video]

#140

Tiny standards in legislation (I'm looking at you EU) around the e-cig designs to ensure simple battery recycling would solve this. Then you make the consumer pay for the battery separately and you are done.

A simple deposit might fix this. Many countries already do this for glass bottles and cans. You get the money back when you return them for recycling. Also could work for other e-waste (phones, tablets, etc.). For some goods like washing machines, this is already common. Extending that to other product categories might be doable. It does put some additional work on shop owners that have to pay back those deposits and…

I once worked with someone who apparently thought they were supposed to throw their takeout out their car window after eating it. That's why they thought they saw people cleaning up the side of the roads every now and then.

Our whole team had to explain to them how this is littering and that isn't why those people exist.

And yes, this is what they had been told since they were a child.

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