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Some people can't see mental images

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Re: Some people can't see mental images

#131

Post by kaffekaka »

noir_lord wrote: post #125
bigyikes wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve interrogated people about this but can never get a straight answer. —— “So you can really see things in your head when your eyes are closed?” Yeah! “And it’s as though you’re seeing the object in front of you?” Yeah, you don’t have that? “So it’s like you’re really seeing it? It’s the sensation of sight?“ Well… it’s kind of different. I’m not really seeing it. —— …and around we go. Personally, I can see images w…

> Personally, I can see images when I dream. If I dream I don't ever remember them - I assume I must, I think everyone (barring medical issues) has REM sleep. I envy people that, dreams sound amazing.

In my experience remembering dreams is a matter of practice and stress levels. When life is calmer I remember alot more.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#132

Post by seneca »

tekacs wrote: post #27
ourguile wrote: post #2

https://archive.ph/iMdvd I have aphantasia and it always astounds me when I see an article like this, or hear a friend talking about it (about not having it) and realize that their experience of the world is so fundamentally different than my own.

Have you seen the Aphantasia Apples? https://lianamscott.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/f4c55-1_b... As in: if you look at this image, can you place yourself on a scale of 1 - 5 of with what kind of fidelity you can picture an apple if you try to imagine it? I'm a 5 for example, and in asking many people this question I've gotten a solid spectrum of answers from 1 - 5. Generally in a single group of a handful of peop…

I fully believe this to be real, but I struggle to internalize that there are people who genuinely can't picture an apple. That is a very useful simple tool. Thank you for sharing it.

Even this feels like only a partial scale. I can picture what an apple looks like, rotate it in my, and see how light would reflect off of it as it moves.

How about smell? Can you call you mind what it would smell like to slice open an apple and experience that in some sense? Or what it would sound or feel like? I'm curious if it's literally "seeing" or if it's the entire experience of imagining an event.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#134

Post by mnmalst »

altruios wrote: post #110
mnmalst wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting, so how can people like that know which is real and which is not? I don't understand it.

Try the crossed eyes 'find the difference' technique. Which is crossing your eyes such that a third image (a blending of the two images: one from each eye) appears between those two images. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvdVBzuGWr4 You can easily understand where the difference is because the data is different between the eyes. The difference appears 'ghostly'. In a similar way, data from the mind's eye is differen…

Yes I can do this. I can see the image in the middle the same way as I see each individual image. (But not both at the same time, the outside images get blurry when I focus on the one in the middle).

Anyways, this is nothing like what I experience when I imagine something.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#135

Post by anthonypasq »

WithinReason wrote: post #18

I wonder what happens when you e.g. flash a 5 digit number to a person with aphantasia for say 0.1 seconds. Can they read it from memory? Or are they worse at this task than people with mental imagery? How about mentally rotating 3D objects?

that was what i was wondering. if i showed someone a strange sort of asymmetrical 3d object and told them to tell me what it would look like if there were looking at it from the back, it seems like it would be almost impossible to do.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#136

Post by [deleted] »

abetusk wrote: post #26
andy99 wrote: post #7

I’ve read tons of these and still have no idea if I have aphantasia or not. I can’t understand whether people just have different ways of describing what’s in their minds eye or if there’s really a fundamental difference.

The test is this: Close your eyes and try to visualize an apple. Do this for 30 seconds or so. Try to visualize the skin, the reflection, the texture, the stem, the depth, etc. Try to hold a stable mental picture of that apple. After the 30 seconds, rate your ability to picture the apple from 1 to 5, where 1 is complete inability and 5 is as if you were looking at a picture of an apple for those 30 seconds. 1 is apha…

[deleted]

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#137

Post by Semaphor »

noir_lord wrote: post #125
bigyikes wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve interrogated people about this but can never get a straight answer. —— “So you can really see things in your head when your eyes are closed?” Yeah! “And it’s as though you’re seeing the object in front of you?” Yeah, you don’t have that? “So it’s like you’re really seeing it? It’s the sensation of sight?“ Well… it’s kind of different. I’m not really seeing it. —— …and around we go. Personally, I can see images w…

> Personally, I can see images when I dream. If I dream I don't ever remember them - I assume I must, I think everyone (barring medical issues) has REM sleep. I envy people that, dreams sound amazing.

I went from frequent lucid dreams as a child and teen, to no (remembered) dreams, back to vivid (but very rarely lucid) dreams. Ask while having aphantasia, I wish I could get even approximately close to dream images while awake.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#138

Post by nogha »

ourguile wrote: post #2

https://archive.ph/iMdvd I have aphantasia and it always astounds me when I see an article like this, or hear a friend talking about it (about not having it) and realize that their experience of the world is so fundamentally different than my own.

I also have it I’m in my late forties and only found out last year. It blew my mind people saw, heard and smelled things in there mind.

I barely ever dream.

Guided meditation has never worked for me.

I have a crazy good sense of direction. My girlfriend doesn’t understand how that works if I can’t see it in my mind.

I do have vivid recall of what things look like but I don’t see them at all.

It all made so much more sense when I figured this out.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#140

Post by tekacs »

happytoexplain wrote: post #49
tekacs wrote: post #31

For those who find themselves wondering whether they 'have' aphantasia or not, I would really recommend looking at the aphantasia apples: https://lianamscott.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/f4c55-1_b... As in: if you look at this image, can you place yourself on a scale of 1 - 5 of as to the fidelity with which you can picture an apple if you try to imagine it? I'm a 5 for example, and in asking many people this quest…

I think this test is bad at accounting for subjectivity. A literal image you see with your eyes doesn't map exactly to an image you "see" with your mind.

It... doesn't, but I've found that a large number of people (I've asked at least many dozens) find it relatively easy to rank themselves on it, and differentiate amongst one another's subjective perceptions.

Also see my sibling comment about contrasting and tasks!

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