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Meeting A Troll

traynorseye.com

131–140 of 211 posts

Re: Meeting A Troll

#131
post #129
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I think back to the decisions I made as a 17 year old (and an 18, 19, 20 ... year old) I think it is perfectly valid to call a 17 year old a child. At that age I would guess a large proportion can barely cook for themselves, have never lived alone, probably never paid a bill or shopped at supermarkets.

There is a strong case in the modern world for upping the age of maturity to say, 25.

After reviewing the conduct of a number of 25 year olds, I find this comment somewhat amusing.

I wouldn't say that increasing it to the age of 40 would be crossing the maturity threshold, either.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#132
post #129
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I think back to the decisions I made as a 17 year old (and an 18, 19, 20 ... year old) I think it is perfectly valid to call a 17 year old a child. At that age I would guess a large proportion can barely cook for themselves, have never lived alone, probably never paid a bill or shopped at supermarkets.

There is a strong case in the modern world for upping the age of maturity to say, 25.

How will that help? You don't solve the problem of people being immature even into adulthood by delaying the official onset of adulthood yet more. You solve it by treating teenagers as adults in training. Which used to be the case until very recently. Now we avoid giving responsibility to teens, we treat high school like day care or a prison, and we wonder why our "kids" don't magically acquire maturity when they turn 18, or 21, or 25, or 30.

Maturity and responsibility are skills that must be taught. And they cannot be taught at a distance, they must be taught live, with the real world, because it is only through learning that actions have consequences, sometimes serious ones, that maturity is acquired.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#133
I remember reading a story about a man who was knocked unconscious by a group of kids as he was riding past them on a bicycle not too long ago. That story followed a similar trajectory including the writer not pressing charges under the conditions that he would be able to meet with the attacker and ask him questions about why he did what he did.

One of the things I remember about the article was the reaction from the police who said that the show of remorse from the attacker was a well-practiced show and that they had seen it many times in repeat offenders.

Does anyone remember more details about this that would help find it?

Re: Meeting A Troll

#134
post #77

That's not a troll. And that's not harassment. That's a stalker. I'm shocked Twitter did nothing about this kind of repeated targeted abuse. And I'm very surprised that the police did nothing for someone who was receiving death threats at his front door.

The bit about the police not being "able" to do anything struck me as a bit bizarre as well... "I got on to the authorities again but, polite and sympathetic as they were, there didn't seem much that could be done." Err... Death threat... Contact Twitter and get the IP address of the user, then contact the ISP to get the home address. Maybe the police couldn't be "bothered" to do anything, but they were certainly cap…

This should be the top comment. Again and again we see Twitter, Facebook etc. being blamed for this type of stuff. But in truth these companies have well established processes to deal with requests from law enforcement authorities, as do ISPs. This situation is scandalous when you see how much time and effort is devoted to revenue raising through traffic and parking violations, but there is apparently no time to follow up death threats.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#135
post #129
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I think back to the decisions I made as a 17 year old (and an 18, 19, 20 ... year old) I think it is perfectly valid to call a 17 year old a child. At that age I would guess a large proportion can barely cook for themselves, have never lived alone, probably never paid a bill or shopped at supermarkets.

There is a strong case in the modern world for upping the age of maturity to say, 25.

Totally agree. You see things from a different perspective when you start having responsibilities and duties, like having to pay for your rent, having to cook and do the cleaning yourself, and so on...

Re: Meeting A Troll

#136
post #57

For those of you who claim that the right thing in this situation would be to turn the child over to the authorities - what exactly do you think the authorities are going to do to make this situation better? The child obviously has some darkness that he needs to work through - to work through darkness he needs the support of a loving community. I find it very sad and disturbing that some commenters (who I assume are…

Retribution isn't constructive, rehabilitation is. If the authorities were able to enter him into a programme of psychotherapy, perhaps this would have been the better option.

I think the young person who committed the abuse probably could be classed as someone with a (possibly extreme) personality disorder.

Bearing this in mind, turning the other cheek and allowing him to continue unhindered isn't going to be that constructive.

Counselling was mentioned - I really hope the perpetrator receives some; for his sake, and the sake of all those he comes into contact with.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#137
post #82
post #53

It's difficult to read this and not think that a psychopath was let off the hook because he was young. Outing and labeling these kinds of people is important to curbing the amount of future damage they can do. There is bullying, there is harassment, and then there is what the OP experienced. No reasonable, rational individual who is just "acting out" in adolescence takes it to these levels. As much as I feel for the…

What is the difference between a "reasonable, rational" individual and an "unreasonable, irrational" individual? What is the basis of your faith in "credible mental health professionals?"

> What is the difference between a "reasonable, rational" individual and an "unreasonable, irrational" individual?

The degree to which the individual can co-exist with other members of society.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#138
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the thing: actions have consequences. Bad actions result in bad consequences. Such is the learning process of lots of species. Do you think training pets by reinforcing good behaviour and punishing bad behaviour is modern and supported by "state propaganda", whatever that means? I do believe that prison systems can be good at rehabilitation. Maybe not in the US, where you seem to be from, but it's working in m…

Who do you trust to administer punishment? What did they do to earn that trust? The concept that one class of humans is the "punishers" who are teaching the other class(es) underlies most (if not all) fascist/authoritarian/racist ideologies of the last 3 centuries. Of course you don't see what's wrong with punishing behavior that has been deemed unacceptable by society. Unfortunately, behavior that society is largely…

> I'm just sayin' - legalize drugs and prostitution and 99% of these problems go away.

While I mostly agree with you, this statement is quite a long shot.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#139
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop. Rewind. You are calling a 17 year old person a "child". This is wrong, and perfectly in keeping with the trend of failing to raise children into mature adults. 17 year olds will be able to vote on their next birthday. They can hold jobs, they can drive cars, they can fly planes, they can even serve in the armed forces with their parents' permission. 17 year olds fought in the battle of Iwo Jima. Calling this pe…

When I think back to the decisions I made as a 17 year old (and an 18, 19, 20 ... year old) I think it is perfectly valid to call a 17 year old a child. At that age I would guess a large proportion can barely cook for themselves, have never lived alone, probably never paid a bill or shopped at supermarkets.

I often find the idea of "maturity" an interesting concept. We have a fairly fixed average lifetime expectancy, which can vary by a couple of years depending on where you live (on average). I think the global average is 68 years old for both sexes.

The western world has an fairly fixed period of "maturing" into adulthood, which is usually achieved when the individual reaches 18 years old. Most countries then offer the vote and other "adult" related perks and responsibilities. Meanwhile, adults are living longer and social and health support costs for those people in retirement is increasing and this burden falls on the working population.

Historically humans have matured before 18 years old. This shift has happened over the last two centuries (western world). However, let's not forget that in many parts of the world, children start work and start families at a much younger age and it is socially acceptable within their own societies. These are concepts that we in the western world find (now) quite bizarre, but during the (British) industrial revolution, children (and we had a lot of them) helped to power the revolution, working in mines and factories. These children had children younger and further increased the population at a more rapid growth rate. We now look on this with distaste, disgust and a large degree of pity, but at the time I doubt it was viewed as so.

I would go further and state that today we see this as slavery, whilst back then they saw it as necessity. This necessity still exists around the world, and even though there is a huge drive in the western world to boycott companies in the third and second world who use child labor, it is an important source of income for their families living in poverty. Importantly and all to often forgotten, we are too blinded by our indignation to see otherwise. I'm not saying that this is right, merely making an observation.

Meanwhile our welfare states are collapsing and we have few options. We have to reduce our social support costs or see our support systems collapse. Alternatively we could import human resource from abroad to pay the taxes to support welfare. Importing labor is not without its own challenges, but has helped to build countries like the United States into global powerhouses.

Without a doubt, we need to extend people's working lives (i.e. later retirement), which is for many countries, especially in Europe, the first step on this path. The "lord taketh and the lord taketh away", but woe betide the state that tries to take anything away from its citizens. Countries like France are being brought to their knees by this welfare burden. The people protest in their millions as they see banks profit and get richer, but nothing will change, except for the fact that eventually, the French will have to accept later retirement and higher taxes.

Thus, the question I put to you is this: Do our children really need 18 years to mature, or is our system taking 18 years to mature them? Are we able to improve the system so that we can increase the number of workers in the system from the bottom up, rather than the top down?

We could radically change the way (and speed) in which we educate our children (and have more of them) to help offset the welfare gap from the bottom up. I haven't ever heard this idea proposed and the devil's advocate in me wants to question why not?

I have children and I want the best for them. On one hand I want them to enjoy their "extended" childhood, but I also want them not to suffer in poverty when they get older. The pragmatist in me thinks that there is little option other than consider extending the worker's life from both sides.

To summarize, the baby boomers fucked us and we and our children just have to live with the consequences.

Re: Meeting A Troll

#140
post #57

For those of you who claim that the right thing in this situation would be to turn the child over to the authorities - what exactly do you think the authorities are going to do to make this situation better? The child obviously has some darkness that he needs to work through - to work through darkness he needs the support of a loving community. I find it very sad and disturbing that some commenters (who I assume are…

The authorities are precisely the proper people to turn the "child" over to. Only they would have the resources and skills required to determine whether the troll has performed similar acts before and whether he is a psychotic (of course the parents also likely know, but aren't likely to do anything effective).

Also because it provides a record of his activity for future reference.

I don't believe the "game" excuse - I think the troll is a full-blown psychopath.

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