Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also, Headscale exists.
I haven't tried Headscale but isn't it more complicated than Wireguard? The selling point of Tailscale is that they simplify Wireguard UX by adding a proprietary control server - this adds complexity to the stack (extra component) but simplifies user experience (Tailscale run the control server for you). Headscale seems like it's complicating the stack (adding an extra component) as well as complicating the user expe…
Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab
131–140 of 175 posts
Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab
#132Earlier quoted context omitted.
They can't get in but they can still fill my logs up, so fail2ban cuts them off after a few failures. Also by collecting data on the IP addresses that are triggering fail2ban I can identify networks and/or ASes that disproportionally host malicious traffic and block them at a global level.
Why bother logging them at all? What is this doing for you? You can't meaningfully characterize attacker traffic this way. They'll come from any AS they want to.
Logging both successful and failed requests is important for troubleshooting my systems, especially the client-facing ones (a subset of which are the only ones that are accessible to the open internet), and failed authentication attempts are just one sort of request failure. Sometimes those failures are legitimate client systems where someone misconfigured something, and the logs allow me to troubleshoot that after the fact. That it can also be fed to fail2ban to block attackers is just another benefit.
> You can't meaningfully characterize attacker traffic this way. They'll come from any AS they want to.
Obviously in a world full of botted computers, IoT devices, etc. it's true that an attacker can hypothetically come from anywhere, but in practice at least from the perspective of a small service provider I just don't see that happen. I'm aware that you are involved with much larger scale operations than I'm likely to ever touch so perhaps that's where our experiences differ. No one's targeting my services specifically, they're just scanning the internet for whatever's out there and occasionally happen to stumble upon one of my systems that needs to be accessible to wherever my clients happen to bring their devices.
Sure, I see random domestic residential ISP addresses get banned from individual servers from time to time, but I never see the organized attacks I see which are usually coming from small hosting providers half way around the world from my clients. I have on multiple occasions seen fail2ban fire off rapidly sequential IP addresses like xxx.xxx.xxx.1 followed by xxx.xxx.xxx.2 then xxx.xxx.xxx.3, or in other cases a series of semi-random addresses all in the same subnet, which then triggers my network block and magically they're stopped instead of just moving on to another network. If I were to be packet sniffing on the outside of the relevant firewall I'm sure I'd see another address in the blocked network trying to do its thing but I've never looked.
Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab
#133Earlier quoted context omitted.
IMHO Fial2ban, just like port knocking, isn't cargo cult security. They are a single tool that can be included in a general system security arsenal, not the only tool you should use but one of a suite of tools that can be used depending on what you want to achieve. Personally I use fwknop for port knocking as it doesn't suffer from replay attacks as it's an encrypted packet. But still serves the same niche
The point being made is that unless "what you want to achieve" is "run a tool that isn't improving your security posture", port knocking isn't providing value to the security model. Hence the cargo cult.
Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab
#134Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a metric ton of completely pointless theater. Your services should simply be unreachable over anything but wireguard (or another secure VPN option).
"We had a secure VPN option set up, but then we had to replace our Ivanti VPN solution so we switched to Fortigate. Then there were some concerns so we jumped to Sonicwall. After that debacle we finally got the budget to go with Cisco and I'm sure everything will be fine now!"
Open source tools are good at actually doing the job, as long as it's a programmer type of job. We've known how to do unbreakable encryption for decades now. Even PGP still hasn't been broken. Wireguard is one of those solutions in the "so simple it has obviously no bugs" category - that's actually what differentiates it from protocols like OpenVPN.
Think about the recent satellite listening talk at DEFCON and how that massive data leak could have been prevented by even just running your traffic through AES with a fixed key of the CEO's cat's name on a Raspberry Pi, but that's a non-corporate solution and so not acceptable to a corporation, who will only ever consider enabling encryption if it comes with a six figure per year license fee which is what the satellite box makers charged for it. Corporations, as a rule, are only barely competent enough to make money and no more.
Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab
#135Earlier quoted context omitted.
Knocking can cut down on grinding. I have in the past created setups where you had to knock prior to establishing a VPN connection, and given the semi-regular problems with VPN implementations I really don't feel bad about that. Fortigate, Sonicwall, Cisco, Ivanti, etc - sure a big part of it is "don't run VPNs based on big legacy codebases" but who's to say there won't be implementation problems found (or introduced…
There is literally no value to cutting down on WireGuard attempts. Like, the exact same set of skbuffs are being created and destroyed in either case.
It's not extra security but it is a little extra efficiency.
Wireguard has something like this built in though, the PresharedKey (which is in addition to the public key crypto, and doesn't reduce your security to the level of a shared-key system). It's still more work to verify that than a port knock however.
Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab
#136Earlier quoted context omitted.
Using WireGuard in what way? WireGuard defaults to the security posture SPA/port knocking hopes to asymptotically achieve.
> Using WireGuard in what way? Using WireGuard to gate access to a server. It looks like it's a VPN, not an access control mechanism. So I am curious how this works.
IMO, "only wireguard" is too restrictive of a policy - I also trust openssh and nginx to be open to the internet, if configured moderately carefully. Most FOSS servers that are widely deployed on the internet are safe to be deployed on the internet, or we'd know about it. I reviewed something that's not widely deployed on the internet though (Apache Zookeeper) and couldn't convince myself that every code path was properly checking authentication. That would have to go behind a VPN.
Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab
#137Earlier quoted context omitted.
The point being made is that unless "what you want to achieve" is "run a tool that isn't improving your security posture", port knocking isn't providing value to the security model. Hence the cargo cult.
I can't agree that it's "a tool that isn't improving your security posture", if it's a layer on top of other tools, you might argue it's effectiveness isn't great but to say it's effectively nothing is a reach.
Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab
#138Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab
#139Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is literally no value to cutting down on WireGuard attempts. Like, the exact same set of skbuffs are being created and destroyed in either case.
Sure there is, if the attacker has to fulfil some basic obfuscation then it cuts down on the amount of crypto work you have to do before ignoring the packet. It's not extra security but it is a little extra efficiency. Wireguard has something like this built in though, the PresharedKey (which is in addition to the public key crypto, and doesn't reduce your security to the level of a shared-key system). It's still mor…
Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab
#140Earlier quoted context omitted.
"We had a secure VPN option set up, but then we had to replace our Ivanti VPN solution so we switched to Fortigate. Then there were some concerns so we jumped to Sonicwall. After that debacle we finally got the budget to go with Cisco and I'm sure everything will be fine now!"
These are what I call, corporate solutions. They're used to make CEOs feel good while deflecting blame, not to actually do the job. See also how nobody gets blamed if AWS goes down, but everyone who used a different host with higher uptime did get blamed when that went down. Open source tools are good at actually doing the job, as long as it's a programmer type of job. We've known how to do unbreakable encryption for…
I don't like or trust OpenVPN. I'd sooner expose OpenSSH itself, which has really a pretty stunning security track record.