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MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

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Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#131

Post by aforwardslash »

jinkylist wrote: post #20
MuteXR wrote: post #7

Keep in mind this is the same project that removed all useful functionality from the included web UI in the community edition with the excuse that it was too much effort to maintain. This is another case of VC-funded companies pulling up the ladder behind themselves.

Is it an excuse? Maintaining code costs money, and the previous versions are provided under the license, and you're free to modify it, pull selective patches and maintain them yourself. While It'd be convenient if the license was a promise to develop and maintain features for free in perpetuity, it just isn't. I run into this in non-company backed open source projects all the time too. Some maintainer gets burned out…

It is sort of an excuse. I don't use MinIO precisely because of this kind of behaviour - if I cannot easily develop, configure and test our applications, I'm not adopting it commercially, specially when there are a ton of options to choose from. In the end, this hurts the MinIO's enterprise offering. Having a robust, easy to deploy community edition, with predictable features, is a great way of allowing integrators to develop and test using your product, and to help the product to gain traction.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#132

Post by Ekaros »

imiric wrote: post #127
Hendrikto wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you always published and built Docker images for the public you are creating an expectation That expectation does not entitle anybody to anything though. > people will rely on that and will chose your software based on that expectation That is their decision. Without any contract or promise, there is no obligation to anybody. > You suddenly deciding that you won't be offering updated Docker images […] is appro…

> Without any contract or promise, there is no obligation to anybody. When a restaurant which you've been going to for years one day decides to serve you your favorite meal with a bit of poop on the side, do you not have the right to be upset about it? They're not under any obligation to serve you meals you're happy with. There was no contract or promise. The fact you're paying for their service doesn't buy you these…

Why isn't there similar expectations for users of Open source? That is be ready to take over yourself if maintainers do not want to do something anymore? Do not ask or demand anything. Do not expect anything but the code. To understand that you can not expect or be entitled to anything. And celebrate what you get just now.

With this the solution becomes obvious. You select piece of technology to build on you are fully and ready to take over it for purposes you want to use for it. The code is shared and you should not expect anything more.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#133

Post by GrinningFool »

antonyh wrote: post #86

I don't see the problem here in theory - if I want to trust something fully I'll build it myself in my own pipeline, often with additional hardening as needed. It only needs scripting out the build process to fit alongside my other code. I even do this for Linux apps like Signal because I want a clean binary that matches the Git tag, packaged exactly right for my system, built with the libraries already in place loca…

> Leaving a known unsafe version as the last release is irresponsible.

I think they should have done a better job of announcing this ahead of time (or at all, really); but there's realistically never going to be a CVE-free release to stop on, because the next CVE is just around the corner.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#134

Post by bitfilped »

Ekaros wrote: post #54
phatfish wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This only inconveniences open source freeloaders. Maybe you can volunteer some time to build Docker images?

Fork and build your own. Isn't that the whole open source ethos? Why it was invented and how it is intended to operate.

Indeed, it feels like most people today treat open source as a placeholder for "work I don't have to do myself" and then get confused/upset when the project and their own interests no longer align and requires effort to bridge that gap in alignment.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#135

Post by s1mplicissimus »

mlrtime wrote: post #90
DannyBee wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That expectation does not entitle anybody to anything though." This is true legally, but not otherwise (socially, practically) "That is their decision. Without any contract or promise, there is no obligation to anybody." Again, true legally, but IMHO a really silly position to take overall. Imagine I provide free electricity to everyone in my town. I encourage everyone to use it. I do it all for free. I'm very caref…

Bad analogy, MinIO isn't a basic commodity required for life. Maybe a car analogy (because they hardly work). It's like lending your car to someone everyday then stopping, then the person complains that they have no way to get around. But there is walking, biking, busses or buying your own car.

I don't see how "basic commodity required for life" is a necessary criteria for any ethical standards to apply at all. This is about trust, community and how to be a good project steward.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#138

Post by tzahifadida »

This reminds me about the bitnami containers. They pulled the docker images so everyone migrated away because they fear they will also pull the artifacts building the project. They never said that. They seem to be continuing to updating the projects and providing access to the artifacts. It is very easy to build the dockers... it is just a dockerfile really... There is really no upside to stop updating the projects, it is free marketing...

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#139

Post by Eisenstein »

Ekaros wrote: post #132
imiric wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without any contract or promise, there is no obligation to anybody. When a restaurant which you've been going to for years one day decides to serve you your favorite meal with a bit of poop on the side, do you not have the right to be upset about it? They're not under any obligation to serve you meals you're happy with. There was no contract or promise. The fact you're paying for their service doesn't buy you these…

Why isn't there similar expectations for users of Open source? That is be ready to take over yourself if maintainers do not want to do something anymore? Do not ask or demand anything. Do not expect anything but the code. To understand that you can not expect or be entitled to anything. And celebrate what you get just now. With this the solution becomes obvious. You select piece of technology to build on you are full…

I think you are digging in a little too hard here. If someone offers a capability that you don't have, and you build that into something you use, then saying that they should be ready for it to go away at any time and be happy to have had it, seems a little too much.

If there had never been an offer, they would not have built around it, and would have found another solution and, even if harder or more inconvenient, learned how to use that and built around that. Sure, no one is obligated to continue to provide them with the product, but saying that they are being unreasonable for expecting a little bit of warning time before having support pulled is a bit unrealistic.

I know we have done the metaphors to death already, but let's try another one: imagine if someone gave you a ride to work every day for years and one morning they didn't show up and you couldn't get in touch with them. You should have had a backup plan, and you shouldn't have depended on them, but it will take you a while to find a car and rearrange your schedule and learn how to drive or whatever you have to do, and all they had to do was notify you a month or two earlier that they wouldn't be able to do it anymore.

Re: MinIO stops distributing free Docker images

#140

Post by ndriscoll »

jraph wrote: post #112
cies wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you provide something, even for free, you should expect people will rely on it and you shouldn't pull the plug overnight if you can help it Do you know their reasons for discontinuing? Are you even entitled to know that? It's their private matter. > of course, if you run out of business or something bad happens to you, that's something else Huh? So now everyone should let you know "it was out of their hands"? Yo…

Hey, tone down, please. Also, have you, for some reason, totally missed the first point in my comment? > Do you know their reasons for discontinuing? Are you even entitled to know that? It's their private matter. Fully addressed in the "if you can help it" part of my comment. > You have no idea how entitled you behave. I have 100% idea how entitled I behave. I don't at all. I don't use MinIO. As an employee, I push i…

If you were relying on their pre-built binaries, you presumably still have them. It's not like they went and deleted them off of your computer. They're just not giving you new pre-built binaries (but they're still giving you new code for free! And others pre-build binaries for free anyway). Do the old ones stop working at some point?

Note that a CVE is not an indication that something doesn't work. In the real world, they're mostly relevant only for businesses that need something like PCI compliance. Especially for something like a storage server that shouldn't be directly exposed to the Internet. If you are a business that has some compliance obligation, you have no one to blame but yourself if you rely on others' charity to meet that obligation.

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