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The Programmer Identity Crisis

hojberg.xyz

131–140 of 317 posts

Re: The Programmer Identity Crisis

#131

To me, the most salient point was this: > Code reviewing coworkers are rapidly losing their minds as they come to the crushing realization that they are now the first layer of quality control instead of one of the last. Asked to review; forced to pick apart. Calling out freshly added functions that are never called, hallucinated library additions, and obvious runtime or compilation errors. All while the author—who cl…

In my opinion this is another case where people look at it as a technical problem when it's actually a people problem. If someone does it once, they get a stern message about it. If it happens twice, it gets rejected and sent to their manager. Regardless of how you authored a pull request, you are signing off on it with your name. If it's garbage, then you're responsible.

I agree and I’m surprised more people don’t get this. Bad behaviors aren’t suddenly okay because AI makes them easy.

If you are wasting time you may be value negative to a business. If you are value negative over the long run you should be let go.

We’re ultimately here to make money, not just pump out characters into text files.

Re: The Programmer Identity Crisis

#132

To me, the most salient point was this: > Code reviewing coworkers are rapidly losing their minds as they come to the crushing realization that they are now the first layer of quality control instead of one of the last. Asked to review; forced to pick apart. Calling out freshly added functions that are never called, hallucinated library additions, and obvious runtime or compilation errors. All while the author—who cl…

> whereas good senior engineers often remove as much code as they add https://www.folklore.org/Negative_2000_Lines_Of_Code.html

"One of my most productive days was throwing away 1000 lines of code." - Ken Thompson

Re: The Programmer Identity Crisis

#133
post #39

Thank you, author. This essay made my day. It resonates with my thinking of last months. I tried to use AI at work, but most of times I regrettably scratched whatever it did and did stuff on my own. So many points I agree with. Delegating thinking to AI is the worst thing I can do to my career. AI at best is mediocre text generator. So funny to read how people attack author using non-related to the essay’s message cr…

The worst thing for me is that I am actually good at LLM-based coding My coworkers that are in love with this new world are producing complete AI slop and still take ages to complete tasks. Meanwhile I can finally play my strength as I actually know software architecture, can ask the LLM to consider important corner case and so on. Plus, I am naturally good at context management. Being neurodivergent has given me dec…

A Russell conjugation: my LLM-based coding output, your Claude throwaway code, his complete AI slop.

Re: The Programmer Identity Crisis

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got stupidly lucky that one of my hobbies as an avid indoorsman was not only valued by the private sector but also happened to pay well. This career was literally the only thing that saved me from a life of poverty.

Don’t worry, once you’re no longer needed you’ll get to experience that life of poverty you missed out.

Nah, I've reached the point where I'll be just fine. Don't worry about me.

Re: The Programmer Identity Crisis

#135

I think "Identity Crisis" is a bit over dramatic, but I for the most part agree with the sentiment. I have written something in the same vane, but still different enough that I would love to comment it but its just way more efficient to point to my post. I hope that is OK: https://handmadeoasis.com/ai-and-software-engineering-the-co...

I can think of few truer identity crises than having a craft you have spent years honing and perfecting automated away.

I fully agree with that statement, but I dont agree with the premise that, that is whats happening currently.

Re: The Programmer Identity Crisis

#136
post #79
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a mediocre developer. No respect for people like you.

A bit harsh off a single post. I like solving problems, not just software engineering problems and I like writing code as a hobby, but I went to this job field only due to high salary and benefits. In fact, I usually hate writing code at day job because it is boring things 20 out of 26 sprints.

>A bit harsh off a single post.

I don't think it is. Labeling passion and love for your work "tech fetishism", is spiritually bankrupt. Mind you we're in general here not talking about people working in a mine to survive, which is a different story.

But people who do have a choice in their career, doing something they have no love for solely to add more zeros to their bank account? That is the fetish, that is someone who has himself become an automaton. It's no surprise they seem to take no issues with LLMs because they're already living like one. Like how devoid of curiosity do you have to be to do something half your waking life that you don't appreciate if you're very likely someone who has the freedom to choose?

Re: The Programmer Identity Crisis

#137

I think "Identity Crisis" is a bit over dramatic, but I for the most part agree with the sentiment. I have written something in the same vane, but still different enough that I would love to comment it but its just way more efficient to point to my post. I hope that is OK: https://handmadeoasis.com/ai-and-software-engineering-the-co...

I liked your emphasis on individual diversity, and an attendant need to explore, select, adapt, and integrate tooling. With associated self-awareness. Pushing that further, your "categories" seem more like exemplars/prototypes/archetypes/user-stories, helpful discussion points in a high-dimensional space of blended blobs. And as you illustrate, it branches not just on the individual, but also on what they are up to.…

That is actually a great idea, and I agree it would be very useful to have such a catalog/map!

I wonder though if the space is mature enough for such a map or if it would become to generic to say anything meaningful.

Re: The Programmer Identity Crisis

#138

This process has been affecting most of the world's workers for the past several centuries. Programming has received a special treatment for the last few decades, and it's understandable that HN users would jump to protect their life investment, but it need not. Hand-coding can continue, just like knitting co-exists with machine looms, but it need not ultimately maintain a grip on the software productive process. It…

I started writing code in basic on a beige box. My first code on windows was a vb6 window that looked like the AOL login screen and used open email relays to send me passwords.

I've written a ton of code in my life and while I've been a successful startup CTO, I've always stayed in IC level roles (I'm in one right now in addition to hobby coding) outside of that, data structures and pipelines, keep it simple, all that stuff that makes a thing work and maintainable.

But here is the thing, writing code isn't my identity, being a programmer, vim vs emacs, mechanical keyboard, RTFM noob, pure functions, serverless, leetcode, cargo culting, complexity merchants, resume driven dev, early semantic css lunacy, these are thing outside of me.

I have explored all of these things, had them be part of my life for better or worse, but they aren't who I am.

I am a guy born with a bunch of heart defects who is happy to be here and trying new stuff, I want to explore in space and abstraction through the short slice of time I've got.

I want to figure stuff out and make things and sometimes that's with a keyboard and sometimes that's with a hammer.

I think there are a lot of societal status issues (devs were mostly low social status until The Social Network came out) and personal identity issues.

I've seen that for 40 years, anything tied to a persons identity is basically a thing they can't be honest about, can't update their priors on, can't reason about.

And people who feel secure and appreciated don't give much grace to those who don't, a lot of callous people out there, in the dev community too.

I don't know why people are so fast to narrow the scope of who they are.

Humans emit meaning like stars emit photons.

The natural world would go on without us, but as far as we have empirically observed we make the maximally complex, multi modally coherent meaning of the universe.

We are each like a unique write head in the random walk of giving the universe meaning.

There are a ton of issues from a network resilience and maximizing the random meaning generation walk where Ai and consolidation are extremely dangerous, I think as far as new stuff in the pipeline it's between Ai and artificial wombs that have the greatest risks for narrowing the scope of human discovery and unique meaning expansion to a catastrophic point.

But so many of these arguments are just post-hoc rationalizations to poorly justify what at root is this loss of self identity, we were always in the business of automating jobs out from under people, this is very weak tea and crocodile tears.

The simple fact is, all our tools should allow us to have materially more comfortable and free lives, the Ai isn't the problem, it's the fact that devs didn't understand that tech is best when empowering people to think and connect better and have more freedom and self determination with their time.

If that isn't happening it's not the codes fault, it's the network architecture of our current human power structures fault.

Re: The Programmer Identity Crisis

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all owe every part of everything to those who’ve come before us. That goes without saying, really. > Secondly, you are very blind if you don’t see that the AI making your job “easier” is close to replacing you entirely, if you don’t also have a deep understanding of the code produced. Brother don’t patronize me. I’m a senior engineer I’m not yeeting vibe code I don’t understand into prod. I also understand the pos…

It’s simpler than that. It’s more of a funeral, collective expression of grievance of a great, painful loss. An obituary for a glorious, short time in history where it was possible to combine a specific kind of intelligence, creativity, discipline, passion and values and be well compensated for it. A time when the ability to solve problems and solve them well had value. Not just being better at taking credit than oth…

I get it, but fundamentally this is a forum discussing technology, and AI is part of that. Especially as it relates to software engineering.

I come here to learn, discuss, and frankly, to hang onto a good life as long as I can have it.

The collective whinging in every AI topic is both annoying and self-defeating.

Re: The Programmer Identity Crisis

#140
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a silly take, just because they existed and were proper grammar before AI slop popularized them doesn't mean they're not statistically likely to indicate slop today, depending on the context.

What's sillier is people associating em-dashes with AI slop specifically because they are unsophisticated enough never to have learned how to use them as part of their writing, and assuming everyone else must be as poor of a writer as they are. It's the literary equivalent of thinking someone must be a "hacker" because they have a Bash terminal open.

You're overthinking it. LLMs exploded the prevalence of em-dashes. That doesn't mean you should assume any instance of an em-dash means LLM content, but it's a reasonable heuristic at the moment.
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