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Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

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Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#131

Post by nijuashi »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #14
jzebedee wrote: post #4

> Prof. Michael Hoffman from Toronto put me on to the Canadian Patent Database, where you can find that Novo did file a patent there for semaglutide. . .but the last time they paid the annual maintenance fee on it was 2018! > You can even find a letter where their lawyers send a refund request for the 2017 maintenance fee ($250) because Novo apparently wanted some more time to see if they wanted to pay it. > On the s…

I always wonder-in this case of such an epic company fuck up, does anyone ever get fired? Or is responsibility so diffuse that nobody is ultimately responsible? Pharma companies are really nothing more than holders of time-limited, expensive, exclusive IP. The number one priority should be to maintain those protections as long as possible. How could any patent be allowed to lapse, even if there was limited commercial…

Saying pharma companies are just holders of ‘expensive, time-limited IP’ is not only wrong, it’s offensive to those of us who actually do the science. We spend years designing, testing, and validating drugs, not scheming to hike prices. We’re not all Shkrelis out here.

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#132

Post by wpm »

barbazoo wrote: post #114
labcomputer wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unlike the criminal law, Novo nordisk would have to go after every single person individually and make the case that they are infringing the American patent. This is all without the help of the police or customs, as a private civil matter. I don't think that's quite right. One of the things that CBP does is inspect incoming shipments, and confiscate IP-infringing things. Think about the recent Apple Watch SpO2 sens…

How practical is that for something the size of a couple pill bottles? Is that something customs would actually catch at all? They seem to have other priorities these days it seems.

Even worse, the bottles are minuscule. Each dose is dissolved in like half a mL of bacteriostatic water/saline. You could fit a years supply in 25mL, or 5 tsp.

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#133

Post by chrisweekly »

vitorgrs wrote: post #31

In Brazil it will expire in July 2026. It's pretty relevant as it's kinda already announced they will put the generics on the public health care (SUS) for free... Which is big deal as an Ozempic shot costs almost the same as the minimum wage. This year they already did an analysis to include Ozempic, but it was denied, probably because of the cost difference... But they were trying on justice to extend the patent...

"same as the minimum wage"

... an hour's wage? a week? a month? annual?

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#134

Post by hibikir »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #14
jzebedee wrote: post #4

> Prof. Michael Hoffman from Toronto put me on to the Canadian Patent Database, where you can find that Novo did file a patent there for semaglutide. . .but the last time they paid the annual maintenance fee on it was 2018! > You can even find a letter where their lawyers send a refund request for the 2017 maintenance fee ($250) because Novo apparently wanted some more time to see if they wanted to pay it. > On the s…

I always wonder-in this case of such an epic company fuck up, does anyone ever get fired? Or is responsibility so diffuse that nobody is ultimately responsible? Pharma companies are really nothing more than holders of time-limited, expensive, exclusive IP. The number one priority should be to maintain those protections as long as possible. How could any patent be allowed to lapse, even if there was limited commercial…

In your typical large company, there's always enough nebulous process as to minimize personal accountability for any decision that is made. There might be a decision maker in practice, but there will be enough wide meetings and committees so that the groups as a whole can make bad decision, or a very immoral decisions, with minimal risk of consequences for anyone involved. Raising tough questions in those rooms is a good way to not make friends, and end up isolated in an unimportant position after the next semi-anual reorg.

Even in companies with a strong CEO who is, in fact, lording over everyone, mechanisms will be built to make sure said CEO's bad decisions were group decisions, and that most of the people around him agreed.

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#135

Post by mmooss »

TMWNN wrote: post #23

Quoting myself https://np.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1md4wde/the_most_va... >: >Novo Nordisk did not file for a renewal because of a mistake, or someone going on vacation, or anything like that. >Novo Nordisk decided that the additional years of patent protection were not worth it compared to the advantage of the drug no longer being under the jurisdiction of the PMPRB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patented_Medici…

An interesting citation! But you are not an authority on the issue (?) and so not much of a cite. What is yourself's claim based on?

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#136

Post by gus_massa »

stevehawk wrote: post #70
gus_massa wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you get more shelf life, but it's an injectable drug. You probably have to disolve it in very clean water in a very clean container. Do you have to match the salinity and pH with the proprties of the blood? How much time must you stir it to ensure it's completely disolved? Do you have to add something to increase/reduce viscosity? Some alcohol in case there are a few bacterias or improve solubility? How long…

Bacteriostatic water is widely available and you hydrate it in the container it comes in. Its pretty easy. I promise you you probably know someone on a glp-1 that is already doing this.

I found it in a mainstream site here. 30ml for $300, with free shipping for next Wednesday. It has classified as a "nutricional supplement" for bodybuilders. I didn't purchase it, but I guess now I'm in yet another list.

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#137

Post by beached_whale »

kristianp wrote: post #129
dghlsakjg wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The price in Canada is ~$175 USD month for name brand Ozempic where I am with no coupons, or other discounts. I see prices in the US around $800+/month. That is significantly cheaper than the US, and cheaper than other GLP-1 class drugs up here, arguably reasonable. Is the supposition that they would have been forced to charge even less? If so, why are their competitors who kept their patents not charging more? Count…

Does the government/medical insurance subsidise that price though?

No, with drug patents the price is the average of a basket of similar countries, including the US. There is bulk buying for some medications by governments, but it depends.

Most people are using private drug insurance in Canada.

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#138

Post by numpad0 »

aardvarkr wrote: post #122
llm_nerd wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And during most of that time Most of what time? The patent just expired a few months ago. Generics are now ramping up because the patent expired, not because of some hypothetical eight year clinical trials. And for that matter, generics of existing ingredients and dosages do not have to repeat clinical trials anyways, which is one of the big reasons generics are a lot less expensive. This hypothesis seems retconned…

This article is saying that the patent elapsed in 2018 because thy didn’t pay the $250 to renew the patent. Instead they relied on “data exclusivity” which means their trial data is exclusively theirs and anyone who wants to sell in Canada must first run safety trials of their own at a huge expense. It’s just as good as a patent but has a shorter window of exclusivity.

> Instead they relied on “data exclusivity” which means their trial data is exclusively theirs and anyone who wants to sell in Canada must first run safety trials of their own at a huge expense.

Sounds like potentially a good thing?

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#139

Post by benrawk »

0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #14
jzebedee wrote: post #4

> Prof. Michael Hoffman from Toronto put me on to the Canadian Patent Database, where you can find that Novo did file a patent there for semaglutide. . .but the last time they paid the annual maintenance fee on it was 2018! > You can even find a letter where their lawyers send a refund request for the 2017 maintenance fee ($250) because Novo apparently wanted some more time to see if they wanted to pay it. > On the s…

I always wonder-in this case of such an epic company fuck up, does anyone ever get fired? Or is responsibility so diffuse that nobody is ultimately responsible? Pharma companies are really nothing more than holders of time-limited, expensive, exclusive IP. The number one priority should be to maintain those protections as long as possible. How could any patent be allowed to lapse, even if there was limited commercial…

I mean the CEO got fired…

Re: Novo Nordisk's Canadian Mistake

#140

Post by loeg »

gpt5 wrote: post #18
jzebedee wrote: post #4

> Prof. Michael Hoffman from Toronto put me on to the Canadian Patent Database, where you can find that Novo did file a patent there for semaglutide. . .but the last time they paid the annual maintenance fee on it was 2018! > You can even find a letter where their lawyers send a refund request for the 2017 maintenance fee ($250) because Novo apparently wanted some more time to see if they wanted to pay it. > On the s…

Canadian manufacturers (Sandoz and Apotex) are preparing to launch their own generic versions in early 2026. I bet many Americans would travel to Canada to buy it there (despite the legality concerns). The medications lasts 2 years in a refrigerator.

I think the biggest legality concern is having your shipment seized at the border. Maybe a risk but it’s not exactly a scheduled drug.
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