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Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

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Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#131

Post by phatfish »

terminalshort wrote: post #116
scott_w wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the UK and listening to people who don't have things like passports, it sounds like it'll make proving your right to work much easier for people, too. I've spoken to friends who have foreign relatives and they've also pointed out the problem the UK has which is: 1. To open a bank account you need an address 2. To rent somewhere (get an address), you need a bank account 3. See above The same happens for children…

In the US you can just tell the bank an address and they will type it in the computer. They make zero effort to verify it. They will even print a piece of paper with that new address on it that you can take down to the DMV and get an ID with that address printed on it. Is this a lot different in the UK?

As the parent said, you need proof of address to open a current account that can be used for day-to-day payments.

A savings account you don't need proof of address but I think most will ask for your NI (social security) number. Some will send snail mail to the address you provide to enable withdrawals.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#132

Post by cess11 »

Lauris100 wrote: post #31
a-french-anon wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can it be used without a smartphone aka "portable telescreen"? Do they explicitly guarantee this'll remain the case? If not, you're just being hoodwinked via cheap convenience.

Everyone has a smartphone lol - i can tell that living in a country with great digital services is a lot less stressful than in country with no digitization and old school paperwork i have gone through both.

Perhaps if you never think about what the state and corporations can do with that surveillance and the amount of control and violence it enables.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#133

Post by jalapenos »

hhh wrote: post #2

I dunno man, I migrated to the Netherlands and our digital ID is an amazing system that literally makes my life easier anytime i need to interact with something. An open standard for the world to use for this seems like the ideal way you would want it to happen. I also personally think we are going to need some form of digital id and hopefully some sort of attribute based credential implementation à la the DECODE pro…

I think this is the plot of every dystopian movie ever though?

You're betting that the government are always going to be nice to you and those around you, carefully ignoring all the history books.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#134

Post by agedclock »

pjc50 wrote: post #120
agedclock wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry you are totally misrepresenting how difficult it is. Here is the checklist: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/68b6b7e7536d6... > If you don’t have a passport, for instance, it’s much harder for a UK citizen to prove their right to work in the UK, for which your employer is liable if they get it wrong. No it isn't. You need a Birth Certificate and a previous paycheck and something that has your NI n…

Don't forget needing to get it countersigned by someone sufficiently middle-class. https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications/acce...

This has nothing to do with passport applications. He is talking about right to work checks. There is nothing excessive about them and they does not require even photo-card ID e.g. driving license / passport.

Also you don't have to insert your personal brand of politics into every discussion. There is nothing outrageous about the list of professions of counter signers. All they are wanting is someone that can be identified easily in a community.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#136

Post by zwnow »

microtonal wrote: post #18
zwnow wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany it unfortunately failed abysmal. Most digital ids stopped working after like 6 months of introduction of the system...

I think in Germany, such efforts are doomed to fail (or were at least doomed to fail when we lived in Germany) because Germany is reluctant to connect different government administrations due to historical baggage (SS, Stasi, etc). We have had DigiD in The Netherlands since 2004 (at least that's when it got its current name) and it's glorious. Everything from requesting a new passport, logging to your tax administrat…

Germany as a whole has become a total disaster sadly. From public transportation to schools over retirement homes to rent prices. Everything is crumbling and its depressing. I wished we could at least have good technical infrastructure, as its relatively cost efficient, but no, we lack competence and old people are blocking every modernization there is (in public offices). Its honestly extremely frustrating.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#137

Post by agnishom »

Xelbair wrote: post #122
buildfocus wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have exactly this right now, without digital ids, it's not even theoretical. The government blocks plenty of residents from aspects of society (eg can't work based on visa rules, can't access public/health services at all without legal residency). Currently that's enforced by random members of e.g. medical staff looking at your skin colour to decide whether to ask to check your physical paperwork before th…

>(eg can't work based on visa rules, can't access public/health services at all without legal residency) You aren't a citizen in such case - you aren't legally allowed to do so. This is another issue with law being in power but it's enforcement over the years was spotty - and people just got used to it. What you are saying is that government blocks you from committing a crime - which it should try to do so as governm…

> government blocks you from committing a crime - which it should try to do

You may have missed stavros's comment in the parent thread. The fact that the government is not perfect at blocking people from commiting crimes is actually good in some cases

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#138

Post by phatfish »

hhh wrote: post #2

I dunno man, I migrated to the Netherlands and our digital ID is an amazing system that literally makes my life easier anytime i need to interact with something. An open standard for the world to use for this seems like the ideal way you would want it to happen. I also personally think we are going to need some form of digital id and hopefully some sort of attribute based credential implementation à la the DECODE pro…

Agreed, all the scaremongering is hilarious. As if a digital ID is what is going to be used to repress the common (wo)man.

News flash, if your "liberal western government" wanted to they have more than enough tools to do it already. See all the repressive governments with institutions stuck in the 60s.

- Don't trust corporations that you have no control over. - Vote wisely for the government you do have some control over. - Accept compromises are needed in a society of millions rather than constant political conflict.

Start with the above for a better life.

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#139

Post by scott_w »

agedclock wrote: post #134
pjc50 wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget needing to get it countersigned by someone sufficiently middle-class. https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications/acce...

This has nothing to do with passport applications. He is talking about right to work checks. There is nothing excessive about them and they does not require even photo-card ID e.g. driving license / passport. Also you don't have to insert your personal brand of politics into every discussion. There is nothing outrageous about the list of professions of counter signers. All they are wanting is someone that can be iden…

A driving license isn’t sufficient for right to work checks because you can have a driving license without being able to work.

For shits and giggles, I just looked up the checker on the UK Gov website and… if you don’t have a passport or easy access to your birth certificate, you don’t have enough evidence of right to work.

Is this possible for most people? Yes. Does it leave groups excluded? Absolutely!

https://www.gov.uk/check-job-applicant-right-to-work

Re: Digital ID – The New Chains of Capitalist Surveillance

#140

Post by anal_reactor »

hhh wrote: post #2

I dunno man, I migrated to the Netherlands and our digital ID is an amazing system that literally makes my life easier anytime i need to interact with something. An open standard for the world to use for this seems like the ideal way you would want it to happen. I also personally think we are going to need some form of digital id and hopefully some sort of attribute based credential implementation à la the DECODE pro…

Poland takes it a step further. You don't need to carry the driving license with you because the police can check it in the system anyway.
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