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The Lost Chapter

aarongreenspan.com

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Re: The Lost Chapter

#131

Post by 001sky »

ryanmolden wrote: post #106
philiac wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It isn't clear if getting someone to believe in your 'extremist philosophy of radical openness' is necessarily a con, unless of course you yourself don't believe in it and/or are doing so only in furtherance of some other interest which you are obscuring." I do believe this is what Greenspan was getting at.

There is some delicious irony in the embarrassment that is likely caused by Aaron posting these conversations. You know, being 'radically open'.

Relevant evidence is not deceitful nor manipulative to disclose.

Re: The Lost Chapter

#132

Post by 23david »

fletchowns wrote: post #36
mycroftiv wrote: post #20

The accumulated evidence of Zuckerberg's poor character was already overwhelming. For me, all it took was the infamous "dumb fucks" quote to make me decide to never use Facebook. That alone disqualifies someone to be a responsible custodian of my privacy. This article's evidence isn't as significant as other established facts like Zuckerberg's invasion of other people's email accounts, but it is consistent with every…

How old was he when he made that comment? We all do/say dumb things when we are young...

It's really hard to change a person's character as they get older. In general I think that by the age of 18-21 most of our ideas of right/wrong and how to behave and treat other people are pretty much established.

tl;dr It's hard to stop being an arrogant asshole. I feel bad for the guy.

Re: The Lost Chapter

#133

Post by freshhawk »

grellas wrote: post #77

Institutional investors made the mistake - again, and again, and again - of validating Mark's duplicitousness by pouring literally billions of dollars into his company, and then billions more into startups seeking to emulate it. Some of their investments created out of thin air industries that contribute absolutely nothing to, and in many cases even detract from, society. . . . Most mind-boggling of all, it's been cl…

There is a label already, "ethical". Argue all you want over the ethics of facebook, or if entrepreneurs have any duty to act ethically, not unethically, not illegally or just not get caught. You don't need a new label though.

You sure did write a lot complaining about people using their free speech to criticize businesses they feel are either harmful or a waste of resources because this is a "free country". I was under the impression that the philosophy behind a free country was that allowing the people to openly criticize and discuss things allowed a society to thrive without overly restrictive laws. I guess they didn't consider the hurt feelings of entrepreneurs. I propose a new amendment: Freedom from hurt feelings resulting from the people's reaction to one's actions!

I'm actually very content with having the chosen method for encouraging altruism to be social norms. I'm happy you are free to invent a new addictive and time wasting form of entertainment who's contribution to society is null or negative. Complaining that some internet words made you feel guilty about it or that there is too much social pressure to actually contribute to the society on who's back you built your business is ... well, it's fucking ridiculous frankly.

Re: The Lost Chapter

#134

Post by ryanmolden »

swordsmith wrote: post #114

I've been reading Robert Greene's 48 Laws of Power recently, and throughout this essay, I can't help but think just how all the "moves" Zuckerburg were accused (and infamous) of were exemplary of a number of these laws. Not trying to pass judgement on Zuckerburg's virtues or lack thereof (it's best to accept the inherent unfairness in life on the road to power), but he is a master of power plays: Law 3: Never put too…

>His amoral approach to power and life is definitely key to his success.

Bit of a hasty conclusion. Have you really analyzed the sum-total of his behaviors/moves and feel you can conclusively state that the above 11 "laws" are the cornerstone of his success? I doubt that. Also, the book you reference is really not useful for any human being that intends to be part of a actual society. It is a great primer for a sociopath, but I will assume that is not what you aspire to be. Some people see successful sociopaths and incorrectly conclude their sociopathy is what made them successful. That is like assuming Steve Jobs, who was somewhat notorious for being...blunt, was successful because he was an asshole, instead of in spite of that characteristic. It also willfully ignores a lot of non-sociopaths that are successful and disregards other factors that may be more causative.

I would take that book with a big grain of salt and not use it as a manual for life. Or you can, I just don’t predict great success. I would predict a long string of people telling other people what an ass you are and causing you to have countless doors closed to you without ever knowing it or knowing why; primarily because people don’t relish partnering with/working for/associating with sociopaths. For every "successful" sociopath you see that lives by those "laws" there are millions of others that also live by those "laws" that have nothing to show for it but a string of failed relationships and a complete and utter lack of friends. Beware of survivorship bias[1], it can teach you only the wrong things.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias

Re: The Lost Chapter

#135

Post by freshhawk »

corporalagumbo wrote: post #121
mattmanser wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Careful, you'll bring the HN grellas lovers down on you. While I always despair at his inability to say something succinctly, he generally always makes an excellent point. Facebook provides an excellent service to most people in the world and it does so at a level that your $20,000 cannot buy. While we as a more discerning social customer may see it as extremely low value, the production values are actually extremely…

Also, just to make sure I'm understanding you: are you saying that there is a group of people on HN who will vigorously downvote me or anyone else simply for satirically rebutting a laughably verbose comment from a popular user? Hmm, and I thought I was finished with primary school.

We did finish with primary school. But these days the internet brings it to us. Ah, the future is grand!

Re: The Lost Chapter

#136

Post by ryanmolden »

001sky wrote: post #131
ryanmolden wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is some delicious irony in the embarrassment that is likely caused by Aaron posting these conversations. You know, being 'radically open'.

Relevant evidence is not deceitful nor manipulative to disclose.

I never said it was either, I was referring to Zuckerberg, in some ways, being hoisted by his own petard.

Re: The Lost Chapter

#137

Post by brooktree »

corporalagumbo wrote: post #85
brooktree wrote: post #23

Regardless of Greenspan's own character or his particular situation, he gives us a peek at the facts, which others are so quick to ignore. I think there will be poetic justice in this story. Because the web is much bigger than Zuckerberg, or Facebook or even Google. The world is still getting online. It's early yet. But what Zuckerberg has done, how he has carried himself in the presence of enormous luck, he cannot e…

Sir, I like the cut of your jib.

The feeling is mutualistic.

Re: The Lost Chapter

#138

Post by freshhawk »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #96
corporalagumbo wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jeez, did you have to write all that? Anyway, although I think you are focusing on the weakest part of Greenspan's argument - the point where he comes closest to bitterness - I was wondering if you'd like to invest $20,000 in my new venture. I'd like to sell crack heroin to junkies in Detroit. I'm sure as a fellow champion of guilt-free founder consciences, you will support my endeavour as I give gangbangers the chan…

In a free society, he is free to write as much as he likes and you are free to neither read nor reply to it. The base of his argument is offending a persons preferences is not sufficient to self censor ones own actions - and I agree. I also agree where he said any legal start up is fine and free of guilt - but don't worry I would be behind any start up or government initiative that gave away heroin to Junkies. The so…

"I also agree where he said any legal start up is fine and free of guilt"

Really? The law, for very good reason, lags behind societal developments and shifts in social norms. Conflating "legal" with "ethical" shows a pretty profound misunderstanding of the two concepts.

Re: The Lost Chapter

#139

Post by res0nat0r »

corporalagumbo wrote: post #130
res0nat0r wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are eager because I think the only things I have ever heard from Greenspan on this site are posts which are still whining about how he got screwed out of lots of fame and fortune in Facebook, or how everyone else is spamming and breaking the law over at AirBnB. Want me to not paint him as a whiner? How about a Show HN post of a cool new tech company he just started that actually will be useful. Failing that all I…

Again, I just don't think this issue is as simple as you portray it. There is a place for critics and criticism in society, a society with them is healthier I think than a situation (as you seem to, forgive me if I misread you, be promoting) where the only thing worthwhile is creating a startup, and if you have not or are not actively creating a startup and achieving the current consensus definition of success, then…

> Are you saying that we should discount Greenspan's opinions automatically, because what, he's too bitter, or has complained too much already, or hasn't created something nice and shiny and new recently?

Yes. Rehashing the same sob story about how he isn't a part of Facebook and isn't a billionaire is old news. Another round of complaining how evil Mark is is not going to make Mark or the public feel sad for him and slip him a cool billion.

Get over it and move on.

Re: The Lost Chapter

#140

Post by zingahgud »

freshhawk wrote: post #133
grellas wrote: post #77

Institutional investors made the mistake - again, and again, and again - of validating Mark's duplicitousness by pouring literally billions of dollars into his company, and then billions more into startups seeking to emulate it. Some of their investments created out of thin air industries that contribute absolutely nothing to, and in many cases even detract from, society. . . . Most mind-boggling of all, it's been cl…

There is a label already, "ethical". Argue all you want over the ethics of facebook, or if entrepreneurs have any duty to act ethically, not unethically, not illegally or just not get caught. You don't need a new label though. You sure did write a lot complaining about people using their free speech to criticize businesses they feel are either harmful or a waste of resources because this is a "free country". I was un…

As long as that ridiculous excuse for an argument or whatever it is (and from a lawyer no less) stays as the top post, it makes all of HN look bad. It's not just the lack of conscience, it's the lack of clarity of thought. Gibberish.

The information Greenspan gives us relates to the person behind a website to which millions of people submit their personal information. The kid running it cannot be trusted. And he really does not care about security or privacy. It's that simple.

Given this information, who cares about the "purpose" of Facebook? There is none. And in fact, they can use your personal information in myriad ways, without ever informing you. What is worth caring about is this website is run by someone who cannot be trusted.

You have person after person who has dealt with him coming forward and telling their story. And it's the same story every time. He cannot be trusted.

If someone responsible had founded and was running Facebook, things could be very different.

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