Live data from Hacker News

California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

gov.ca.gov

131–140 of 232 posts

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#131
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> “Artificial intelligence model” means an engineered or machine-based system that varies in its level of autonomy and that can, for explicit or implicit objectives, infer from the input it receives how to generate outputs that can influence physical or virtual environments. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like this definition covers basically all automation of any kind. Like, a dumb lawnmower responds to the…

If a single design of automated lawnmower cut off 50 toes it should absolutely be investigated. Perhaps the result of that investigation is there is no fault on the machine, but you don't know that until you've looked.

Oh that reminds me of strollers that can amputate baby fingers. It happened multiple times. These people need to be sued to death.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#132
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to hope so. They'll agree, until the bubble is prone to bursting and then suddenly that fine might be better to eat.

There is no bubble. Your priors are not serving you well here.

The AI bubble is a thing but so was the dot com bubble. It doesn't mean the technology is useless.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically speaking, people saying "history won't repeat this time, it's different" have a pretty bad track record. Do we remember what the definition of "insanity" is?

“The .com economy is a new business paradigm: the rules have changed.” - pioneers in wrongness 25 years ago. Oft copied, but never vindicated.

That's a weird example, because they were vindicated. The .com economy really did massively change the way business is done. They just (fatally, for most of the companies) overestimated how quickly the change would happen.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do libraries have freedom of speech? The same argument can then be used to censor libraries. Do books have freedom of speech? The same argument can then be used to censor parts of a book.

Do we treat books as the protected speech of libraries? No. In fact we already ban books from library shelves regularly. Freedom of speech does not compel libraries to host The Anarchist's Cookbook , and does not prevent governments from limiting what libraries can host, under existing law.

False. I have no clue where you got this idea, but libraries are perfectly within their right to have it on their shelves, just as publishers are allowed to publish it (present copyright conflicts aside). Repeated legal attacks against the book, at least in the US, were unsuccessful.

You may be conflating “libraries” with “school libraries,” where some states have won the right to limit the contents of shelves. Public libraries have certainly faced pressure about certain books, but legally they are free to stock whatever they want. In practice they often have to deal with repeated theft or vandalism of controversial books, so sometimes they pull them.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#135
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“The .com economy is a new business paradigm: the rules have changed.” - pioneers in wrongness 25 years ago. Oft copied, but never vindicated.

That's a weird example, because they were vindicated. The .com economy really did massively change the way business is done. They just (fatally, for most of the companies) overestimated how quickly the change would happen.

Having a bubble doesn’t mean the industry entirely implodes and goes away forever or otherwise doesn’t change things. It’s often a phase.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#136
post #4

What real-world problem does any of this solve? For instance, how does it protect my IP from being vacuumed up and used by LLMs without permission from or payment to me?

The problem it solves is providing any sort of baseline framework for lawmakers and the legal system to even discuss AI and its impacts based on actual data instead of feels. That's why so much of it is about requiring tech companies to publish safety plans, transparency reports and incidents, and why the penalty for noncompliance is only $10,000. A comprehensive AI regulatory action is way too premature at this stag…

> A comprehensive AI regulatory action is way too premature at this stage

Funny, I think it is overdue.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#137
post #4

What real-world problem does any of this solve? For instance, how does it protect my IP from being vacuumed up and used by LLMs without permission from or payment to me?

This isn’t necessarily about fixing today’s real-world problems. Transparency is an enabler for identifying (or avoiding) a class of future real-world problems.

Basically what many of us called for 2-3 years ago and were called Luddites over.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is already illegal under 18 USC § 842 to provide bomb-making instructions or similar with the knowledge or intent that said instructions will be used to commit a crime. The intent is to balance free speech with the probability of actual harm. AIs do not have freedom of speech, and even if they did, it is entirely within the bounds of the Constitution to mitigate this freedom as we already do for humans. Government…

You're actually making my point for me. 18 USC § 842 criminalizes distributing information with knowledge or intent that it will be used to commit a crime. That's criminal liability for completed conduct with a specific mens rea requirement. You have to actually know or intend the criminal use. SB 53 is different. It requires companies to implement filtering systems before anyone commits a crime or demonstrates crimi…

I hate that HN's guidelines ask me not to do this, but it's hard to answer point-by-point when there are so many.

> You have to actually know or intend the criminal use.

> If a company knowingly provides a service to facilitate imminent lawless action, that's already illegal.

And if I tell an AI chatbot that I'm intending to commit a crime, and somehow it assists me in doing so, the company behind that service should have knowledge that its service is helping people commit crimes. That's most of SB 53 right there: companies must demonstrate actual knowledge about what their models are producing and have a plan to deal with the inevitable slip-up.

Companies do not want to be held liable for their products convincing teens to kill themselves, or supplying the next Timothy McVeigh with bomb-making info. That's why SB 53 exists; this is not coming from concerned parents or the like. The tech companies are scared shitless that they will be forced to implement even worse restrictions when some future Supreme Court case holds them liable for some disaster that their AIs assisted in creating.

A framework like SB 53 gives them the legal basis to say, "Hey, we know our AIs can help do [government-defined bad thing], but here are the mitigations in place and our track record, all in accordance with the law".

> When the state mandates that companies must identify and filter certain types of information because the government deemed them "dangerous capabilities," that's a speech restriction on the companies.

Does the output of AI models represent the company's speech, or does it not? You can't have your cake and eat it too. If it does, then we should treat it like speech and hold companies responsible for it when something goes wrong. If it doesn't, then the entire First Amendment argument is moot.

> The government is forcing companies to build censorship infrastructure instead of letting them make editorial choices.

Here's the problem: the nature of LLMs themselves do not allow companies to fully implement their editorial choices. There will always be mistakes, and one will be costly enough to put AIs on the national stage. This is the entire reason behind SB 53 and the desire for a framework around AI technology, not just from the state, but from the companies producing the AIs themselves.

Re: California governor signs AI transparency bill into law

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we treat books as the protected speech of libraries? No. In fact we already ban books from library shelves regularly. Freedom of speech does not compel libraries to host The Anarchist's Cookbook , and does not prevent governments from limiting what libraries can host, under existing law.

False. I have no clue where you got this idea, but libraries are perfectly within their right to have it on their shelves, just as publishers are allowed to publish it (present copyright conflicts aside). Repeated legal attacks against the book, at least in the US, were unsuccessful. You may be conflating “libraries” with “school libraries,” where some states have won the right to limit the contents of shelves. Publi…

> You may be conflating “libraries” with “school libraries,”

For the purpose of this discussion, there is zero difference, unless you can articulate one that matters. Feel free to mentally prefix any mention of "library" with "school" if you like.

Post reply on HN