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Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras

evanstonroundtable.com

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Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras

#131

Post by snowwrestler »

mothballed wrote: post #14
donmcronald wrote: post #8

Even though it's become commonplace in the last 20 years, I'm still shocked to see how companies can pretty much ignore the law, do whatever they want, and have everyone involved shielded from any kind of significant consequences. In situations like this, I think the person at the top of the chain that told employees to perform the illegal installations should be arrested and charged. On top of that, the company shou…

They were co-operating/conspiring with CBP as an extension of the federal government. Most likely the feds said they will tie up whoever challenges them in federal court. They can play jurisdiction fuck fuck games and then flip between it being a search, it being necessary for safety, that the city/county was obstruction a federal investigation, and all other nonsense. Don't think your company could just put up camer…

A bunch of companies seem to be relying on similar federal cover. To me it seems dumb because whatever legal exposure they create will outlast the current administration. It’s impossible to predict who will be running the federal government 3 years from now, and liability does not evaporate much in that time frame.

The next administration could decide to side with localities, and assist prosecutions of the companies and executives involved. Or even pursue their own federal prosecutions.

Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras

#132

Post by tehwebguy »

rs186 wrote: post #86
jbullock35 wrote: post #18

There is a larger issue that other commenters are missing: > The city has paid the first two years of that extension but would still owe $145,500 for the final three years if the contract is upheld. The city intends to terminate the contract on Sept. 26 under its notice to Flock, but the company is challenging that termination, and the dispute could escalate to litigation. The city is trying to terminate a contract w…

"Flock had allowed U.S. Customs and Border Protection to access Illinois cameras in a 'pilot program' against state law" they are already violating state law, aren't they?

Company fears not being paid, has no fear of committing a crime.

Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras

#133

Post by Bender »

sschueller wrote: post #44

https://deflock.me/

Neat. There's only one city in my state that has these cameras. Its the wealthy blue city of Jackson Hole [1] that can't manage to fix potholes. I only pass through that place when taking someone to the airport. Curious if they were able to read my previous military plate which changes number every 5 years. Now I want to get one of these things to play with to see how it interprets my plate. I think I can see a flock on a pole in the live stream.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoUOrTJbIu4 [live camera, town square]

Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras

#134

Post by saubeidl »

wartywhoa23 wrote: post #91
Wololooo wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if I'd have to wager anyone that dare speaking out would be labelled antifa, therefore a terrorist, therefore free for all from a law enforcement perspective... Things are going downhill at an impressive pace... Not going to lie watching the Trainwreck in slow motion is entertaining in a sort of morbid way. Though I wished that it wouldn't go that way...

Trainwreck spotting is best conducted from outside of the train. I think that most cases of seemingly unwarranted depression and apathy in people today in fact stem from their subconscious acknowledgement of this trainwreck in progress, and failure of consciousness to accept that and/or do anything about it. In other words, mass cognitive dissonance.

First articulated in 2005 by scholar Alexei Yurchak to describe the civilian experience in Soviet Russia, hypernormalization describes life in a society where two main things are happening.

The first is people seeing that governing systems and institutions are broken. And the second is that, for reasons including a lack of effective leadership and an inability to imagine how to disrupt the status quo, people carry on with their lives as normal despite systemic dysfunction – give or take a heavy load of fear, dread, denial and dissociation.

Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras

#135

Post by reaperducer »

mbf1 wrote: post #60
tamimio wrote: post #41

That city should just make it legal that the citizens can paintball or spray those cameras anytime and anywhere.

This will escalate - every new car on the road comes with a bevy of cheap cameras integrated - I get 360 degree views when backing up from my 2018 Chevy Bolt. It's really only a matter of time before license plate scanning computers get integrated - there's already a cellular modem integrated into the vehicle - I don't use or pay for that feature, but it's an opportunity.

This will escalate - every new car on the road comes with a bevy of cheap cameras integrated

Back when DOGE was making headlines and a certain car salesman was using the Oval Office as daycare for his kid, there were a people on HN and elsewhere noting that every Tesla could easily be turned into a roving real-time government surveillance unit.

Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras

#136

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #128
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #72

I feel as if ALPRs are already a fact of life. Not thrilled about it, but that’s sort of what license plates are for (ALPRs are really just automated cop eyeballs). The most disturbing thing, is the behavior of the company. It’s pretty clear that they have a separate contract with the feds, and that contract is the one they care about more. It’s also an illustration of the faustian bargain that customers make, when e…

I think there is probably a core difference between recording the position of any plate which is wanted pertaining to a crime and recording the position of every plate. I have zero issue with Flock finding suspect plates, but the fact some journalists were able to get logs of where their cars were indicates it is far more overbroad of collection than an automated cop's eyeballs.

Yes, but most of my comment was about corporate accountability, which no one wants to talk about.

Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras

#137

Post by _cenw »

ipaddr wrote: post #125
_cenw wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This does not seem to be a prevalent opinion on here, and I was trying to be diplomatic, but I guess it still comes out as "why is it OK to post / comment politics here if it's a less contentious topic many people on HN care about, but I regularly get downvoted for even relating information to my association with a demographic group forcefully enlisted to the front of the culture war". Orange site bad.

Because this has a tech angle and its local. Plus it connects to big tech companies collecting data on everyone. Which is different from a Gaza discussion which has no tech angle and two sides telling each other what the other side has done.

Calling anything "local" to HN is pretty funny US-centrism, for someone posting before 8 AM EST. And I'd never call what's happening in Gaza a "culture war", that would seem trivializing - although my issue seems to be escalating more and more as well.

Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras

#138

Post by segmondy »

Animats wrote: post #47

There's a Flock camera at the end of my driveway. I'm next to a city line, so it's a reasonable location. I wonder if I can file a CCPA request and get a list of my comings and goings.

Yes you can, see this article

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/virginia-police-used-f...

Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras

#139

Post by rsynnott »

_cenw wrote: post #54

Aside the topic, but I wonder how HN, as a community, and as a moderation team, weighs this on the intellectual curiosity vs primarily politics scale. This seems politics to me. Very important politics that a lot of people in tech have a special interest for, but politics nonetheless, and much more pressing topics seem to be absent through the on-topic rule.

This site has always been fairly interested in mass surveillance stuff (which is, naturally, inherently political).

Re: Evanston orders Flock to remove reinstalled cameras

#140

Post by pjdesno »

donmcronald wrote: post #8

Even though it's become commonplace in the last 20 years, I'm still shocked to see how companies can pretty much ignore the law, do whatever they want, and have everyone involved shielded from any kind of significant consequences. In situations like this, I think the person at the top of the chain that told employees to perform the illegal installations should be arrested and charged. On top of that, the company shou…

If you click through to the follow up article, you’ll find that the city covered the cameras with black plastic.

Sometimes low tech solutions work pretty well. And since the cameras are under contract to the city, on city poles, I doubt there’s anything the feds can do.

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