Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

RTO: WTAF

wordsrightman.beehiiv.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 151 posts

Re: RTO: WTAF

#131

Post by thefz »

SR2Z wrote: post #127
thefz wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think that folks overseas aren't as capable of communicating with Americans as other Americans are I speak Italian, English and French. I speak English to you because it's the only language you know. We are not the same. > I think that American tech companies would prefer a motivated at-will employee at 3x the cost of an unfirable European with a statutory month off every year. We work to live, not the opposite.…

> I speak Italian, English and French. I speak English to you because it's the only language you know. We are not the same. I have worked with overseas coworkers who spoke English. You're right, it's not always the same as having native fluency. > We work to live, not the opposite. Again, we are not the same. You're making my point for me - offshoring work fails for cultural reasons, not because overseas workers are…

> Also a very funny take because if you have ever visited the Bay Area, you can't throw a rock without hitting someone who struck it rich and retired at 30.

What does it have to do with companies looking for "motivated" americans? Also

> if you have ever visited the Bay Area

Nah, thanks.

Re: RTO: WTAF

#132

Post by varispeed »

Esophagus4 wrote: post #125
varispeed wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole “RTO builds culture and networks” story is upside down. Culture isn’t something you force by sticking bodies in the same postcode; culture is what people build when they trust each other, share information freely, and aren’t ground down by pointless commutes. If your company can only transmit knowledge through overhearing desk chatter, you don’t have culture - you have an ad-hoc crutch for bad processes. Me…

If you want a job, feel free to work remote. If you want a career, get back to the office.

A ‘career’ in a company you don’t own is just a managed narrative. It convinces you to trade loyalty and time for the illusion of progress, while the compounding benefits accrue to shareholders.

Re: RTO: WTAF

#133

Post by 000ooo000 »

pitched wrote: post #63
000ooo000 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Too many developers think they are working alone, while in fact they are part of a team and they would be better off working closer to that team. Sounds like you think software development is like one of those stock photos with 8 people smiling and high-fiving around a whiteboard. Devs are (mostly) nerds. Nerds have been collaborating in the online world for decades. They somehow managed to achieve things and build…

I really, strongly believe that if devs were building genuine friendships with their team mates remotely, there would be no RTO. I have only ever seen the opposite: people are distancing from each other more than ever. Aren’t we in a “loneliness epidemic”?

The first thing to know about genuine friendships is that they usually don't form when forced. Sticking 6 devs from different cultures, generations and seniorities in a room and saying "ok be friends now" is wishful thinking, the kind of simplistic shit you usually get out of management. To think that RTO is a solution to this is naive, sorry to be blunt. It has far more to do with who you hire. Lazy/incompetent management would prefer the easier RTO mandate, as usual.

Re: RTO: WTAF

#134

Post by Esophagus4 »

varispeed wrote: post #132
Esophagus4 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want a job, feel free to work remote. If you want a career, get back to the office.

A ‘career’ in a company you don’t own is just a managed narrative. It convinces you to trade loyalty and time for the illusion of progress, while the compounding benefits accrue to shareholders.

Ah, I see - now we got to the root of it. This goes much deeper than remote work for you.

For your belief system, yes - remote work is probably more suited for you.

Re: RTO: WTAF

#135

Post by pitched »

000ooo000 wrote: post #133
pitched wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really, strongly believe that if devs were building genuine friendships with their team mates remotely, there would be no RTO. I have only ever seen the opposite: people are distancing from each other more than ever. Aren’t we in a “loneliness epidemic”?

The first thing to know about genuine friendships is that they usually don't form when forced. Sticking 6 devs from different cultures, generations and seniorities in a room and saying "ok be friends now" is wishful thinking, the kind of simplistic shit you usually get out of management. To think that RTO is a solution to this is naive, sorry to be blunt. It has far more to do with who you hire. Lazy/incompetent mana…

You can only incentivize the behaviour you want. It can’t be forced. RTO does do this in a stronger way than fully remote, in second-order ways. Simplistic as it might be, if those are the only tools available, those are the ones that will be used. It’s been five years since the pandemic now and a better way hasn’t been found yet.

Re: RTO: WTAF

#136

Post by array_key_first »

majorbugger wrote: post #16
mft_ wrote: post #13

I think there are three alternative hypotheses the article misses from its list: * Ego: senior people need to be seen and respected in person; being reduced to equally-sized thumbnail videos on Teams doesn't feed this need. * Real estate: some companies have financial commitments (e.g. long-term leases, owned buildings) to large office buildings which need to be justified; selling or ending the lease early might refl…

Do these extroverts have a job that requires any level of focus? I'm also pretty much an extrovert but if I need to get any work done, being in the office is actually counterproductive for me and for people who I interact with.

The not so secret secret is that office jobs are 50% work and 50% politics. And that's in a good company. In a dysfunctional company, it's more like 80% politics.

They have work to do, but then buckling down and focuses is probably worse than what they're doing. Unfortunately.

Re: RTO: WTAF

#137

Post by gaws »

surgical_fire wrote: post #111
gabesullice wrote: post #9

I'm genuinely interested in why RTO is trending. I searched Harvard Business Review, Gartner, and other sources just last week trying to find the rationale, but I wasn't successful. In fact, I found those sources to be a little cautionary. E.g., they say "if you do switch to in-office or hybrid, make sure you actually have metrics to evaluate the effects" and "ensure it makes sense for the actual work to be done by e…

At some point I cared about the reason. I have since stopped caring. Even if a bunch of companies adopt RTO, many others just embraced remote work as a competitive advantage. I can just choose to work for those. So, RTO all you want. I am not joining.

> many others just embraced remote work as a competitive advantage. I can just choose to work for those.

Are you sure it's that easy?

Re: RTO: WTAF

#138

Post by gaws »

birdalbrocum wrote: post #21

What RTO and WTAF means? Who knows. I clicked on link to find out but looks like website blogs my IP range. I will never know this important information..

You couldn't take the 30 seconds to do web search for those acronyms?

Re: RTO: WTAF

#139

Post by gaws »

sublimefire wrote: post #83
Yizahi wrote: post #41

RTO is way to force people work for two more hours per day for the same pay (1 hour typical commute one way). Hence it is done to suppress wages and make people leave voluntarily. It's not that hard to deduce.

But it is not, people work more when remote. It is harder to disconnect from work. This kind of bothers me because it seems RTO will reduce the hours spent working (on average) which should affect the output, but somehow companies expect the inverse.

Yizahi is right. RTO is mostly about reducing headcount.
Post reply on HN