131–140 of 183 posts
The difficulty is, in many cultures - if you repeatedly invite someone and they don't attend - people view it as disrespectful to them.
So knowing the difference between a friend who needs inclusion, and something else might be hard to discern.
But agree, it's a story that should cause a moment of reflection on your own friends & interactions.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I’m shocked by the highly upvoted grumpiness! Sadly, I’m not. People can be quite cruel; especially as a mob. You’d think that a crowd like nerds, with our famously awkward aspect, and the way so many of us were treated, would be empathetic, but it seems that the treatment has actually had the opposite effect. I suspect many of us have had “nerdy” bosses that were walking nightmares. It didn’t happen to me, but tha…
> You’d think that a crowd like nerds, with our famously awkward aspect, and the way so many of us were treated, would be empathetic, but it seems that the treatment has actually had the opposite effect. I suspect many of us have had “nerdy” bosses that were walking nightmares. The amount of nerds in tech is overstated and so is the absurd assumption that everyone here was bullied. And second, a lot of what we call "…
Nah, Dunning-Kruger is in effect here. People are frequently far less emotionally-intelligent than they believe themselves to be, and will misinterpret the actions and intentions of others, often projecting onto them their own hang-ups, insecurities, and vices. There is also an erroneous conflation of comfort and prosociality, where someone who merely makes another individual (or, more likely, someone of the social group that individual is a part of with large amounts of social capital) uncomfortable is branded as "mean" or "an asshole", while another person - who is charismatic, but actively harming the people around them - is accepted, or even admired.
IME, "nerds" (frequently neurodivergent) tend to be observant, but have difficulty wearing social masks. This is where the above comes in: they actually have above average emotional intelligence, but because their attempts to be prosocial are considered rather than instinctual, they come off as "unnatural", their efforts are misinterpreted as malice, arrogance, apathy, etc., and they themselves begin to believe that they're socially-inept. Meanwhile, they are, unfortunately, surrounded by people who are often incapable of identifying or acknowledging this dynamic.
The irony is that this comment is meant to elucidate and inspire empathy, but it will itself likely be misinterpreted as condescending.
If people keep declining invitations, I take the hint. Otherwise I feel like I'm pestering them. From my perspective, Anna is indistinguishable from someone who doesn't like me/the group/our plans that much. Organizers also put themselves out there when they suggest and idea and invite people. Being repeatedly shot down feels bad too. The core of my friend circles is the people who keep showing up. They're receptive…
If it's constantly "no", to anything, including a chill tea evening with 3 people or movie theater or walk in the park or museum etc., then I'd conclude she doesn't like the group/me and the invites are probably annoying.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of the most difficult things in relationships is when each person thinks they are "doing the right thing" for the other, but it comes across as completely the opposite. It reminds me of a relationship I had once which didn't work out for many reasons, but one thing in particular stood out: how we each expected to ask and receive help. She would expect me to see that she needed help and just jump in. When no help…
One thing I had to learn is that clear is kind and unclear is unkind. If your unstated expectations are unmet, it's on you. I used to be like the "she" in your story, and I realised this behaviour is manipulative and rarely gets me what I want. > Some people will take "no" as a rejection. People say "no" because they mean "no", and people accept "no" as meaning "no". This is how adults communicate. I don't think you…
Even better, ask Anna what she wants to do. Maybe bowling on Sunday afternoon is more her thing.
These invites that are always declined only provide an illusion of inclusion.
This is especially valuable for friends who struggle with depression. They almost never feel like going out because depression sucks out all their energy. But they'll appreciate the invite and that they're not forgotten. It's harder this way for them to isolate and go deeper down the spiral. One rule that helped me fight my depression was to accept invites no matter what. Go to the loud bar I don't like? I'm in. Cake…
In order to get over my social anxiety I did the same. First year of college, I'm in to every event, hangout and gathering. I made many close friends, connections, memories.
Yet after any significant social interaction I was somehow, inexplicably, almost mysteriously, extremely exhausted. A lunch with few close friends would have me resting on the couch for a few hours afterwards. A meetup with more people would incapacitate me for the weekend. There was no alcohol or anything, the exhaustion wasn't physical but mental.
I kept at it for a year but the anxiety never eased off like so many "Get out of your room, touch grass, socialize" people claim. By the second year I was literally dreading getting out of my dorm room to get groceries for the off chance I'd meet a friend in the building. Meanwhile everybody loved me and were very friendly to me, but for some reason I was feeling like secretly everybody doesn't like me. I had negative amounts of self confidence and had constant people-pleasing behavior.
My friends kept inviting me because I was showing up to every event.
It turns out I had undiagnosed autism and ADHD. I was masking all this time[1]. The reason I felt why everybody doesn't like me was because I didn't like my friends, but never deemed my emotions important enough to even realize that.
After I realized this I let go of %99 of my "friendship"s and I'm much, much happier, content and stress-free than ever before. The comfortable level of socialization for me is maybe an outdoor activity with a close friend once a month.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You’d think that a crowd like nerds, with our famously awkward aspect, and the way so many of us were treated, would be empathetic, but it seems that the treatment has actually had the opposite effect. I suspect many of us have had “nerdy” bosses that were walking nightmares. The amount of nerds in tech is overstated and so is the absurd assumption that everyone here was bullied. And second, a lot of what we call "…
>a lot of what we call "not having social skills" is frequently an euphemism for "being mean and then wondering why people avoid me" situation. Nah, Dunning-Kruger is in effect here. People are frequently far less emotionally-intelligent than they believe themselves to be, and will misinterpret the actions and intentions of others, often projecting onto them their own hang-ups, insecurities, and vices. There is also…
I am talking about people who are insult others, mean, condescending, refuse to consider very real and practical needs of others as valid. These absolutely exist and they get euphemized away, just like you do it now, as "just being awkward and misunderstood".
You basically refuse to consider such situation, unless the person in question is also charismatic. If someone is not highly charismatic, they can not be jerk, basically.
> The irony is that this comment is meant to elucidate and inspire empathy, but it will itself likely be misinterpreted as condescending.
You are refusing to listen and read what I said, projecting some kind of completely different situations onto the one I described. That wont elucidate empathy, because you are simply not considering what I said in the first place.
> they actually have above average emotional intelligence, but because their attempts to be prosocial are [...] their efforts are misinterpreted as malice, arrogance, apathy
I will stop at "malice". If on ended up doing harm to others unintentionally, his/her emotional and social intelligence is not high. And if it was not unintentional or result of not caring about others, then it is what it is.
Same goes with arrogance. Someone is being overbearing manner to others or operates on the assumption that others are dumb so much, that it is noticeable. When others notice, their conclusion that he is arrogant is correct and valid. It is not awkwardness nor fear nor anything like that.
I'll go against the grain here. If I invite someone a couple of times, and constantly get declined no way I'll invite that person anymore, because I make an effort to invite you. Declining (repeatedly) makes me feel like an ass for inviting you. And I want friends that respond, not friends that reject me. Wanting to be invited just to decline sounds.. egotistical to me. A relationship is a two way street, and being t…
We ended up hanging out quite a bit during those early months.If people keep declining invitations, I take the hint. Otherwise I feel like I'm pestering them. From my perspective, Anna is indistinguishable from someone who doesn't like me/the group/our plans that much. Organizers also put themselves out there when they suggest and idea and invite people. Being repeatedly shot down feels bad too. The core of my friend circles is the people who keep showing up. They're receptive…
Per the second sentence of the article, declines were limited in scope to party invites, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45348495#45355972
We ended up hanging out quite a bit during those early months.