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PlanetScale for Postgres is now GA

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Re: PlanetScale for Postgres is now GA

#131

Post by n_u »

rcrowley wrote: post #96
n_u wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, thank you for your work on this and being willing to answer questions on it. "We guarantee durability via replication". I've starting noticing this pattern more where distributed systems provide durability by replicating data rather than writing it to disk and achieving the best of both worlds. I'm curious 1. Is there a name for this technique? 2. How do you calculate your availability? This blog post[1] has some…

1. I don't know if there's a single name for this. I will point out that AWS EBS and Google Persistent Disk as industrial examples of distributed, replicated block devices are also providing durability via replication. They're just providing it at a lower level that ends up sacrificing performance. I'm struggling to come up with a citation but I think it's either Liskov or Lynch that offered a proof to the effect of…

P(two failures within MTTR for first node) = P(one failure)P(second failure within MTTR of first node|one failure)

independence simplifies things

= P(one failure)P(second failure within MTTR of first node)

= P(one failure) * (1 - e^-λx)

where x = MTTR for first node

λ = 1/MTBF

plugging in the numbers from your blog post

P(one failure within 30 days) = 0.01 not sure if this part is correct.

MTTR = 5 minutes + 5 hours =~ 5.083 hours

MTBF = 30 days / 0.01 = 3000 days = 72000 hours

0.01 * (1 - e^(-5.083 / 72000)) = 0.0000007 ~= 0.00007 %

I must be doing something wrong cuz I'm not getting the 0.000001% you have in the blog post. If there's some existing work on this I'd be stoked to read it, I can't quite find a source.

Also there's two nodes that have the potential to fail while the first is down but that would make my answer larger not smaller.

Re: PlanetScale for Postgres is now GA

#132

Post by n_u »

apavlo wrote: post #125
n_u wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This made me laugh pretty hard, but it's basically my take too. Haha glad you enjoyed it. > It's interesting to me, though, that people see Postgres as the "big database" and MySQL as the "hobby database." I basically see things as the exact opposite I agree. As I understand Postgres started as a challenger to SQL[1][2] with support for more complicated data types but then in the mid '90s they added SQL support and…

You are conflating MySQL and InnoDB. The latter does a lot of good things, much more than the former.

Haha that's probably correct, databases are a huge topic and I still know very little. I learned most of what I know about databases from you and my work in industry.

Perhaps could you share some of those good / bad things InnoDB / MySQL does?

Re: PlanetScale for Postgres is now GA

#134

Post by samlambert »

sethreno wrote: post #133
samlambert wrote: post #2

If anyone has questions about our Postgres product please feel free to ask. I will be around to answer.

Will Neki be a branch of [Citus]( https://github.com/citusdata/citus ) or is it more based on Vitess?

Inspired by Vitess seeing as we are the company behind Vitess but it's a new codebase.

Re: PlanetScale for Postgres is now GA

#135

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

I really wish that the hobby tier hadn't gone but I also understand that planetscale is a b2b which imo I can respect yet still wish if I can try things in a hobby tier...

I read the comments and it seems that in one of them they mention between supabase vs planetscale postgres that maybe they can use a project like supabase and then come to planetscale when their project grows enough to support that decision.

How would a migration from supabase to planetscale even go and at what scale would something like that be remotely better i suppose.

Great project tho and I hope that planetscale's team doesn't get bored listening to all requests asking for a free tier like me, maybe I am addicted on those sweet freebies!

Re: PlanetScale for Postgres is now GA

#136

Post by maxenglander »

t43562 wrote: post #114
odie5533 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different than Aurora Postgres or RDS Postgres?

This is really what I meant. They must offer more than a copy of postgres running on a computer. How do they scale? What are the features? Why would I choose this over RDS for example? Scaling postgres is not that informative. I am sorry if I annoyed the people working on it. I think the USP could be explained more obviously.

It's a reasonable question. I think it's too early days for us to be able to provide a feature-by-feature breakdown of PlanetScale Postgres vs. Aurora/RDS. Our stated mission on day 1 (today) is to be the fastest and most reliable Postgres provider out there. The benchmarks we've provided are the clearest, data-driven thing we can point to right now in support of that.

More features will come later on which I think will set us apart even more from RDS, Aurora and other providers, but too early to talk about those.

Beyond features, there are other reasons you might choose us. For example, we've built a reputation on being having excellent reliability/uptime, with exceptionally good support. These are harder to back up with hard data, but our customer testimonials are a good testament to this.

Re: PlanetScale for Postgres is now GA

#137

Post by samlambert »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #135

I really wish that the hobby tier hadn't gone but I also understand that planetscale is a b2b which imo I can respect yet still wish if I can try things in a hobby tier... I read the comments and it seems that in one of them they mention between supabase vs planetscale postgres that maybe they can use a project like supabase and then come to planetscale when their project grows enough to support that decision. How wo…

we've seen a number of Supabase -> PlanetScale migrations and it's been pretty simple with significant cost savings for the customer. The scale part of this is hard to answer because it really depends on the workload.

Re: PlanetScale for Postgres is now GA

#138

Post by therein »

samlambert wrote: post #129
therein wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like you are reaching pretty hard to find an issue with this statement. Your comment seems to come from a lack of experience scaling databases and not understanding how difficult it is to do what we've done in partnership with our customers. Either that or deep or a high level of insincerity. Up until this, I was gonna say, fair enough, I appreciate the direct replies from the staff. But this paragraph set…

you made a dumb comment and got heat for it. i don't think that represents a narcissistic personality. regardless of what you think of us i wish you all the best.

Oh I got the heat for it? From you? I felt none of it. Way to represent your employer weird champ.

It is wild that an employee (lmao CEO) posts this way and it is sanctioned by his employer. I guess you're used to talking this way to your employees. But I am not an employee, so I can't feel your fury.

I am glad it is taking place in public, I can only imagine how poorly you must treat people behind closed doors. At least here people can see it for themselves how unprofessionally this company is run. I wish nothing but patience to your employees, God knows what they must be saying once you're out of the room.

You had one job here, to represent your company in a professional level-headed manner and you couldn't even do that. Such a shame.

Re: PlanetScale for Postgres is now GA

#139

Post by JoshPurtell »

samlambert wrote: post #129
therein wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like you are reaching pretty hard to find an issue with this statement. Your comment seems to come from a lack of experience scaling databases and not understanding how difficult it is to do what we've done in partnership with our customers. Either that or deep or a high level of insincerity. Up until this, I was gonna say, fair enough, I appreciate the direct replies from the staff. But this paragraph set…

you made a dumb comment and got heat for it. i don't think that represents a narcissistic personality. regardless of what you think of us i wish you all the best.

I had a high opinion of PS before this comment.

Now I have a higher opinion of PS

Re: PlanetScale for Postgres is now GA

#140

Post by gtowey »

samlambert wrote: post #137
Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #135

I really wish that the hobby tier hadn't gone but I also understand that planetscale is a b2b which imo I can respect yet still wish if I can try things in a hobby tier... I read the comments and it seems that in one of them they mention between supabase vs planetscale postgres that maybe they can use a project like supabase and then come to planetscale when their project grows enough to support that decision. How wo…

we've seen a number of Supabase -> PlanetScale migrations and it's been pretty simple with significant cost savings for the customer. The scale part of this is hard to answer because it really depends on the workload.

Hey Sam! Congrats on the launch!
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