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Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

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Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#131

Post by rayiner »

jonathanstrange wrote: post #103
rayiner wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India has 130 million college graduates, and 70% of H1bs. Mexico, Brazil, and Colombia together have over 50 million graduates, but only around 2% of H1bs combined.

So the US is more popular among Indians than among Mexicans, Brazilians, and Colombians. What is the point? And why these countries when I've already said the same about Indians vs. Chinese?

The point is that it strongly suggests the system is being abused by India. Even excluding developed countries where people might lack incentive to move, India doesn’t come close to having 70% of “the talent.” Latin America alone probably has as many college graduates as India, accounting for higher college attendance rates. But Latin America accounts for a small share of H1bs while India accounts for 70%.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#132

Post by sarchertech »

rs186 wrote: post #125
sarchertech wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Amazon has over 10k H1B workers. Think about how much money it means. Something like 0.3% of their yearly profit. They're already paying probably somewhere near $200k a year more. Clearly it's not for no good reason. Clearly there is some advantage to employing them here if they are already willing to pay $200k more than they have to. An extra $100k doesn't erase whatever that value is. The question is, is employing…

Care to show your math?

From your post

>while paying a third of the salary

If they're paying $300k, they are paying $200k extra to employ that person in the US.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#133

Post by Freedom2 »

mothballed wrote: post #112
apwell23 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why do you say its a bribe? where is actual money going?

To the state coffers where it is money laundered to friends of the political class via favored private enterprises that win contracts for things like building border walls, keeping databases on US citizens, or running detention facilities.

Is there any evidence of this? Otherwise please don't post unsubstantiated rumors on this site, it's not what it was made for!

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#134

Post by yibg »

sarchertech wrote: post #124
yibg wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having skilled immigrants is good for the country. H1B right now is the primary way this happens. Crippling H1B goes against that.

Sure that can be your stance. But that's not we're talking about. I'm talking about people on the left who have historically been anti H-1B, but who have moved over to the pro H-1B camp because Trump acted against the program. To that point though, there were ~40k O visas issued last year. And presumably that number would have been much higher if the H-1Bs were harder to get. And unlikely H-1B the O visas actually ha…

I understand. I'm not doing a good job communicating my position. I'm in the camp you're describing: I've historically been complaining about the H1B program and how it's run, I'm also pro H1B now after this announcement like you say.

To elaborate, I'm not pro or anti H1B per se. I'm for bringing in skilled immigrates with a reasonable qualification criteria. I agree that H1B has been abused in the past and should be reformed. I'm ALSO against just outright killing the H1B program without a replacement, which is what this EO seems to be trying to do. It's not because it's trump did it, it's because the of the chaos and confusion of this rollout (which I think is likely intentional) and because if this holds it'll cripple the H1B program which in turn will cripple the inflow of skilled immigrants.

Basically I'm against the H1B program as it was, but I'm in favor of keeping it as it was over what is being done here.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#135

Post by CSMastermind »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #36

I assume immigration fees are solely the purview of the executive, is that correct ? I also would think that if this fee is applied to some countries and not others, it would pass muster since its the same as with tariffs - they don't need to be universal (or uniform). I am not clear on the mechanics of this though. Is the fee is annual, one-time or renewal; but i suppose this will be cleared up once the EO is releas…

Congress gave the president broad authority to regulate the immigration process. Trump's executive order cites two statutes cited below.

I'm not a lawyer so it's possible, even likely that there's something I'm missing but to my laymans reading of the law it would seem to me he has the authority to put basically whatever process he wants into place.

Section 215(a) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), codified at 8 U.S.C. § 1185(a), states exactly:

Unless otherwise ordered by the President, it shall be unlawful—(1) for any alien to depart from or enter or attempt to depart from or enter the United States except under such reasonable rules, regulations, and orders, and subject to such limitations and exceptions as the President may prescribe;

Section 212(f) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), codified at 8 U.S.C. § 1182(f), states exactly:

Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#136

Post by remarkEon »

farseer wrote: post #29

The big question mark is if this fee would apply to hundreds of thousands of existing H1B visa holders when they need an extension/renewal?

There’s hundreds of thousands of H1B visa holders? I thought this visa was for people with some specialized skill that doesn’t exist or is impossible to find in the U.S. Surely there can’t be that many.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#137

Post by jrs235 »

vkou wrote: post #43
IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #36

I assume immigration fees are solely the purview of the executive, is that correct ? I also would think that if this fee is applied to some countries and not others, it would pass muster since its the same as with tariffs - they don't need to be universal (or uniform). I am not clear on the mechanics of this though. Is the fee is annual, one-time or renewal; but i suppose this will be cleared up once the EO is releas…

Law requires these fees to be ~essentially the cost of processing. So that EO is almost certainly illegal, and will be litigated.

Assuming thoughtful intent is in use, perhaps this is a fishing attempt to see what corporations will challenge and litigate; an attempt to identify opposition and to add targets to punish next.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#138

Post by wrs »

andrewinardeer wrote: post #105
mapontosevenths wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Their arbitrary nature is designed to consolidate executive branch authority that can be welded as a weapon against corporations that might consider supporting his opposition in the future. It's a classic fascist ploy, and is further proof that executive orders should be banned. In America we do not have kings who rule by decree, or at least we should not..

If executive orders get banned, should presidential pardons as well? This instrument can also be used for leverage.

Both have necessary and legitimate uses, which is why they exist. Any institutional power can be used corruptly. The defense against that is not to try to predecide and constrain every action of the executive. It is for the people, directly or through their representatives, to recognize the corruption and remove that executive through election or impeachment.

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#139

Post by Our_Benefactors »

nojito wrote: post #72
Our_Benefactors wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bold claim cotton

The data is publicly available. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/eta/foreign-labor/performance

This proves the first part of your claim, not the second (which is wild speculation and no data exists)

Re: Microsoft memo advises H1B employees to return immediately if currently abroad

#140

Post by thisisit »

sarchertech wrote: post #28

It's wild to watch the zeitgeist among many programmers swap in real time from being against H-1B visas to pro H-1B visas the second Trump goes after them. It is possible for a stopped clock to be right twice a day. Left and right doesn't have to disagree on literally every single thing. If you're on an H-1B and you get fired or laid off, you have 60 days to find a new job or be deported. That creates an underclass o…

> A $100k per year fee doesn't fix that, but it does make them so expensive that they are really only viable for $300k+ positions

It also incentivizes the CTO to promote a cost saving measure. For any job that doesn't absolutely require onshore presence, lets move it offshore. We can save 100k per position and also retain talent.

Companies have been offshoring jobs due to the tax rule change. Personally I know lot of Google teams which have been offshored. So, I don't understand why people think this will somehow cause job retention. Some jobs might be retained and more will be lost. Acting as if this $100k is somehow a good idea shows lack of understanding of how real world works.

In the meantime, rural medical teams who employ H1B doctors will be decimated. But before that these pesky billion dollar companies need to be taught a lesson.

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