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Grief gets an expiration date, just like us

bessstillman.substack.com

131–140 of 227 posts

Re: Grief gets an expiration date, just like us

#131

> We medicalize grief because we fear it. I think this is just incorrect. You are not obligated to seek treatment for most medical problems[1]. The point of medicalizing something is to draw a line between situations where it would be too soon for medical professionals to step in and when people enter a situation where they may need external help. One of the diagnostic criteria, which this article mentions, is that y…

I think you are misinterpreting what the author means with "medicalize". They aren't saying "require to be treated by a medical professional". What they're saying is that as a culture, we reason about grief using the tools and concepts of the medical industry. Because it's part of our culture, this is so automatic that it's almost hard to conceive of any other way. But it is indeed a choice to describe grief as a sor…

I think what you are talking about is a problem. Having a medical diagnosis gives personal experience an extra weight in the social realm that's quite problematic. We should all get to say how impactful something for us and the medical folks can have their own standards for when they feel comfortable intervening.

That said, if that's what the author was trying to talk about, I think they are doing so in a way that unfairly indicts the medical system for assertions it doesn't make. They say "Apparently, that’s a disease", but as I said I do not think it is. I think they've misunderstood what makes a disease under the diagnostic criteria they list.

> We could just as well have a culture that treats grief as a normal part of the human experience.

That culture does exist. Even in this article there is an experience of grief that's considered normative in the medical community. Including, I would argue, the authors' grief. I would argue that the medical approach to grief is actually better than other western treatments of grief.

I agree that western cultures (and US culture in particular) is horrible about grief. We want people to be robotic and predictable and not make us think about loss and be sad in private and a whole mess of awful, inhuman things. But I don't think that pressure either comes from the medical community or is furthered by how the medical community talks about grief.

Re: Grief gets an expiration date, just like us

#132
post #129
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s love with nowhere to go

I love to miss people. I think missing is a complete and beautiful expression of love, just as much as having.

I think you don't truly know if you love someone until you miss them for some time.

Re: Grief gets an expiration date, just like us

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would posit your issue is not in co-option of terminology but in that ableism is still rampant and these are people who wouldn't take your wife seriously even if you described her symptoms. I have conditions that people do not uwu cutesy about on tiktok and people still illegitimate me when it inconveniences them slightly like canceling plans. People playing down disabilities the disabilities of others is extremely…

I upvoted your comment because this is also a huge issue. I just find that the co-opted terminology does worsen the quality of dialogues about the co-opted terms. People need to have the symptoms fully described for them in detail and sometimes don't believe me or think I'm exaggerating because it doesn't match their preconceived notions of what those words mean. I'm not saying that the problem isn't ableism, it abso…

I flagrantly disagree that disbelieving someone's disability or believe someone is exaggerating because it doesn't mean their preconceived notions is something that can be helped if the culturally known depictions were specific to your wife's depictions. This is the mental health equivalent of yelling at someone in a wheelchair who can stand for short periods of time. Disbelieving someone about a disability assumes I am even capable of telling who is "really" disabled, which is an ableist belief that will not go away even if all the TikToks that say they were triggered by a minor toe stub disappeared.

In fairness, I believe that people who make jokes and light of disability suck in that I also believe this is an ableist activity. And I fully believe you that this kind of uwu-ification of disability is used as justification for ableist people to behave shittility towards your loved one.

Re: Grief gets an expiration date, just like us

#134
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What's significant though is the PREVALENT opinion. 100% of my religious friends want and have kids, while the majority of my secular friends do not. Do all of your religious friends subscribe to the same religion? If so, does this religion proscribe having children and raising families as a necessary, or desired, component of the faith or community? Because you could be confusing religion and culture here. Secular…

I am not sure "culture" and "religion" are separable in the long run but I don't think that aligns with the point you're making. Religious people see "be fruitful and multiply" as a literal command from G-d and one of the fundamental points of religion. So while religious culture can evolve, the evolution of this attitude isn't a flexible point. On the flip side, secular culture has no intrinsic reason for "family va…

>which is why, I think, atheist culture over time devolves to childlessness

I don't think the data supports this, yet. Religiously affiliated completed TFR is 2.2 while unaffiliated is 1.8. However, completed TFR means this is looking at those older than 60, so expect those numbers to drop in the future.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2025/02/26/religion-fer...

From my observations, TFR is not much different between most people who describe themselves as religious and most people who describe themselves as non religious. However, the TFR is different for those who I would describe as the most religious, compared to the "casually" religious/non religious.

For example:

https://danielgordis.substack.com/p/israel-has-high-birth-ra...

Re: Grief gets an expiration date, just like us

#135
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if this is "human nature" or if it's a specific cultural problem in the modern west. It's certainly true here in Canada too -- everyone uses terms that are really quite heavy duty to describe quite minor things. I'm deaf. When I tell people this, one of the most common response is "Oh, don't worry. I'm a little bit deaf too." Now not to go policing people on their identities but -- no you're not. Like wh…

Conversations are rarely about saying truthful things, and mostly about societal theatre that is supposed to leave both parties feeling better. Nobody cares that you're deaf, what you're expected to do is to react in a way that makes the other person feel good. I don't like this either, but that's how, for the lack of better word, "normies" function.

This is an excellent summary of the issues I have faced, where if you inform someone in the middle of a conversation of an experience you had in the past where someone else has done something bad, they tell me I am being negative... But it wasn't me who did the bad deed. It is completely baffling to me, and you summarised very well how people just want to effectively be tickled instead of dealing with facts. It is very isolating.

Re: Grief gets an expiration date, just like us

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Function in what context? I have been diagnosed with ADHD at age seven. I have had many checkups and am currently medicated. I can tell you that I wouldn't need to if I didn't have to work a menial wageslave job. Interestingly I can focus perfectly fine when doing interesting stuff without medication and it has always been this way. What you are saying is that there is some proper definition of disorder, which would…

And what I know with ADHD is that the incapacity to handle dumb meetings is just one definition of functioning. Maybe you don't need medication to clean yourself enough to prevent skin issues, prevent addiction to substances, compulsive criminal behavior, avoid hoarding behaviors, have a safe living space, have the capacity to maintain friendships/avoid loneliness, engage with social interactions in a mutually respec…

Tell them to use disposable plates or foil over their planes. Works wonders

Re: Grief gets an expiration date, just like us

#137
post #51

I say this with respect and love to the author: it does not sound like you’re handling this just fine. I think you’re right that there’s no way to handle this just fine, and you’re right that you’ve got a very good reason for not being just fine, and it’s in fact very normal and expected for you to not be handling this just fine, but it is also the case that you’re not handling this just fine. I think we tend to reac…

the reason to NOT have a DSM-recognized diagnosis on your medical record is it can be used to disqualify you for things later in life. And we cannot predict all of these future changes, either in our interests and/or the law. "We don't want pilots with depression or anxiety, because duh obvious reasons" and there goes a career option for you. (something very like this happened to my cousin)

That's an interesting example. On the one hand, we really don't want actively suicidal pilots. On the other, are the current guidelines too stringent? I can't imagine you're saying that actively suicidal pilots should be allowed to fly hundreds of people, so the argument seems to be more that private corporations have too much information and too much power and are willing to blacklist qualified candidates just to reduce examination costs.

That seems more like an argument against corporate overreach than anything else.

Re: Grief gets an expiration date, just like us

#138

> We medicalize grief because we fear it. I think this is just incorrect. You are not obligated to seek treatment for most medical problems[1]. The point of medicalizing something is to draw a line between situations where it would be too soon for medical professionals to step in and when people enter a situation where they may need external help. One of the diagnostic criteria, which this article mentions, is that y…

I would posit that you are reading this too literally. I didn't get the impression that the author was trying to rail against the medical establishment but rather to process her own experience in relation to professional guidance on the topic. I took it much more as a personal reflective essay than a professional medical critique.

Re: Grief gets an expiration date, just like us

#139
post #89
post #47

One of my best friends died 12 years ago in our late 20s. I know he is dead, and yet a couple times a month I think, "Oh, I haven't talked to him in a while, I should text him!" before my logical brain kicks in and lets me know the deal. There is a dumb part of me that wants to believe, "Oh, he probably faked his death to get out of debt." He was such a schemer, if anyone would, he would. It was an open casket funera…

It’s love with nowhere to go

"what is grief if not love persevering"

Re: Grief gets an expiration date, just like us

#140
post #89
post #47

One of my best friends died 12 years ago in our late 20s. I know he is dead, and yet a couple times a month I think, "Oh, I haven't talked to him in a while, I should text him!" before my logical brain kicks in and lets me know the deal. There is a dumb part of me that wants to believe, "Oh, he probably faked his death to get out of debt." He was such a schemer, if anyone would, he would. It was an open casket funera…

It’s love with nowhere to go

Love is best shared. Grief can be a powerful tool to help build up healthy new relationships.
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