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Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

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Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#131

Post by supertrope »

somat wrote: post #119
dmix wrote: post #32

I used to believe strongly in financial sanctions over war but I'm becoming more skeptical. Markets and industry are a very hard thing to constrain at a global scale. To do it effectively you basically encourage a giant financial surveillance state and need put huge pressure on partner countries - who often don't even implement it meaningfully. You make business harder for everyone and create lucrative black market o…

I don't know what the situation is now. but one of the more surreal aspects of the war was how the gas pipelines through Ukraine were kept open. Ukraine desperately needed the transit fees. and Russia desperately needed to sell it's gas. So here they were, in the middle of a war, still doing business with each other.

They also could not anger donor EU countries sucking on the far end of the pipe. So time was provided for them to switch to LNG from the US and Qatar.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#132

Post by velik_m »

rufus_foreman wrote: post #121
mandevil wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

25 years ago, IR scholar Dan Drezner wrote the book _The Sanctions Paradox_ which tried to explain, in an IR theory sort of way, why sanctions are used so often and achieve so little- they don't overthrow governments, they rarely even manage to make governments stop doing the things we don't like. He recently revisited that in FP magazine ( https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/09/10/sanctions-paradox-russi... ) arguing for…

>> We've managed to go 80-odd years with a reasonable global norm against redrawing borders What are the current borders of Yugoslavia? Did anybody in the west argue that redrawing the borders of Yugoslavia was against global norms? Did you?

The federal entity Yugoslavia ceased to exists, but the borders are actually the same as they were in socialist Yugoslavia.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#133

Post by lurk2 »

mandevil wrote: post #66
dmix wrote: post #32

I used to believe strongly in financial sanctions over war but I'm becoming more skeptical. Markets and industry are a very hard thing to constrain at a global scale. To do it effectively you basically encourage a giant financial surveillance state and need put huge pressure on partner countries - who often don't even implement it meaningfully. You make business harder for everyone and create lucrative black market o…

25 years ago, IR scholar Dan Drezner wrote the book _The Sanctions Paradox_ which tried to explain, in an IR theory sort of way, why sanctions are used so often and achieve so little- they don't overthrow governments, they rarely even manage to make governments stop doing the things we don't like. He recently revisited that in FP magazine ( https://foreignpolicy.com/2025/09/10/sanctions-paradox-russi... ) arguing for…

> and it is worth a lot to demonstrate that we- the global community- do not acquiesce

The “global community” you’re referring to consists of America and its client states—only around 1/8th of the world’s population.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#134

Post by fakedang »

supertrope wrote: post #130
fakedang wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what difference have North Korean sanctions made geopolitically? North and South Korea are nowhere near a peaceful resolution, and North Korea has advanced its nuclear arsenal significantly, with a repertoire that could even hit US coastal cities. North Korean citizens have now normalized to poverty and destitution after generations of sanctions. There are quite a few of them working alongside the South Asian lab…

SK has a stronger military than NK and twice the population. Of course a large part of that is internal economic failure due to central planning.

The stronger military doesn't matter when NK has nuclear weapons, which deter any "unification efforts". Sure, South Koreans are doing great, but what difference did sanctions make to the lives of North Koreans?

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#135

Post by groggler »

fakedang wrote: post #134
supertrope wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SK has a stronger military than NK and twice the population. Of course a large part of that is internal economic failure due to central planning.

The stronger military doesn't matter when NK has nuclear weapons, which deter any "unification efforts". Sure, South Koreans are doing great, but what difference did sanctions make to the lives of North Koreans?

You seem to be looking for some other outcome. NK with the economy of SK would have been a nuclear threat decades ago and would be stockpiling more nuclear weapons than the US has given their relative GDP allocations..

Would it be nice if sanctions were equivalent to invasion and does that matter to the argument that they are better to implement than do nothing?

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#136

Post by ceejayoz »

SanjayMehta wrote: post #124
ceejayoz wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite. The real insurers are large, old, and have long made a name for themselves in this regard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lloyd%27s_of_London

So existing legacy monopolies are real and all newcomers are fake. Got it.

Nah. The smaller new ones reinsure via folks like Lloyds. It’s quite complex.

The company in this article could have done that, but they forged documents to avoid it. They had no intention of covering accidents - it was just plain fake to get these ships into ports.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#137

Post by fakedang »

groggler wrote: post #135
fakedang wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The stronger military doesn't matter when NK has nuclear weapons, which deter any "unification efforts". Sure, South Koreans are doing great, but what difference did sanctions make to the lives of North Koreans?

You seem to be looking for some other outcome. NK with the economy of SK would have been a nuclear threat decades ago and would be stockpiling more nuclear weapons than the US has given their relative GDP allocations.. Would it be nice if sanctions were equivalent to invasion and does that matter to the argument that they are better to implement than do nothing?

North Korea has no dearth of access to nuclear weapons. They get enough raw material from countries other than Canada and the tech they need from China, Pakistan and now Russia. So no, sanctions have not harmed their nuclear programme.

But what they've done is worsen the lot for the layman North Korean.

North Korea was already a nuclear threat decades ago. Where they were lagging behind was in ICBMs that could reach the continental United States.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#138

Post by Twistyfiasco »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #52
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's good advice. Losing a car is much less worse than personal injury or worse. Everybody's a toughguy until a methhead who can't feel pain stabs you 15 times. Should the police crack down? Sure, but they aren't magicians, crime isn't gonna magically dissolve tomorrow. In the mean time, keep yourself safe by not inviting harm.

If the culture was "if a methhead tries to stab you, you can and should use any force necessary to stop them" that might be different But no, the culture in Canada is "Check your privilege and let the poor methhead stab you" No joke, people in Canada genuinely do not think they can or should use force to protect themselves from dangerous threats

With all due respect you are quite incorrect.

Most people think and do use for to protect themselves from threats like all humans.

The issue was bringing the US style castle doctrine defence argument where some folks feel that since the intruder is trespassing they have carte blanche to murder them.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#139

Post by valianteffort »

actionfromafar wrote: post #110
valianteffort wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That’s neither here nor there, is it?

You cannot take someone seriously when they hold conflicting thoughts. Doublethink and doublespeak are signs of disingenuous sociopathy.

Re: Ships are sailing with fake insurance from the Norwegian Ro Marine

#140

Post by f137 »

I'm doubly baffled by this story.

First, when I buy mandatory car insurance, police can check its validity in seconds. I'd expect international shipping to be at least at that level of strictness.

Second, how insurance can help avoid sanctions? The enforcement should look at the goods source and destination, not on who insured them, right?

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