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Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

lttlabs.com

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Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#131

Post by avianlyric »

mathis wrote: post #109
lxgr wrote: post #98

> EPR even supports up to 240 W! Plenty of power for any device you'd reasonably power with USB-C. I feel (or rather hope) we'll see more than that at some point. Being able to replace device-specific wall adapters would be a huge win. This has largely already happened for everything that needs 10 watts or less, but between that and things that actually need a lot of power (i.e. kilowatts, not watts) and/or benefit f…

The situation with chargers isn’t ideal. With a single USB-C port, everything works fine. The problem starts when multiple ports are involved. Plugging in a second device can trigger unpredictable behavior, which is usually acceptable for battery-powered devices. But for devices that need a continuous power supply (e.g., a Raspberry Pi), multi-port chargers aren’t reliable –– connecting another device may briefly int…

It’s a limitation of the early versions of the PD spec. The PD spec now includes features that allow a device to express its needed power draw, and wanted power draw, along with info like the fact they’re a battery pack.

In addition the spec now has messages that allow a charger to renegotiate the PD contract with a device with resetting the entire USB-C connection. So if you have chargers and devices that support these elements, you can connect and disconnect devices with interrupting the power to anything else connected. The charger just does a live renegotiation and redistribution of its available power envelope.

Also means that when a phone and battery pack get plugged in, the charger can pull power allocation from the battery pack to send to the phone so the phone charges first. Then once the phone is charged, reallocate the power budget to the battery packs again.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#132

Post by richrichardsson »

wickedsight wrote: post #101
ShellfishMeme wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've once received a USB-C charger with a portable breast milk warmer device that outputted 18V at 2A without doing PD negotiation. That fried another device when I plugged it in. This is non compliant in the EU, but when I reported it to the responsible authorities, they didn't feel like doing anything about it. We are talking about a charger that can fry any device and potentially cause a fire, coming with a produc…

Yeah, I'm surprised that I'm being down-voted for this comment for this exact reason. Manufacturers are adding non-compliant USB-C plugs to tons of equipment and it causes these types of issues.

It's possibly because of conflating USB-C (the connector) with the USB protocols (what goes down the wires).

I could put a USB-C connector on a device and have it not even try to do any USB protocol over the wire. If not being careful about pinouts, it could be super easy to destroy either device if plugged into some other USB-compliant device.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#133

Post by theshrike79 »

gregoryl wrote: post #19
spartanatreyu wrote: post #3

Didn't know LTT's labs was already running. I'll be curious to see how their testing and data compares to gamersnexus testing and what their first catching a manufacturer's lies event will be.

I'm surprised it continues to exist at all. The main content ltt puts out these days is purely mass market entertainment. Physical products are still pretty good!

https://www.lttlabs.com

They have their own site and all

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#134

Post by mystifyingpoi »

viraptor wrote: post #17

Some labels/descriptions could use a bit more polish. For example in test 8 "Averages 15 W delivered to the Switch at maximum." - I kinda see what they mean, but that's a very awkward way to phrase it. The maximum is over 20W. There's a few spikes that go over. I guess that's the maximum for a moving average? For their labs, they could be more precise.

Agreed. Also I'm curious about "measured before AC adapter" - what? Does it mean that this data includes the losses from the AC adapter?

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#136

Post by bdhcuidbebe »

dev_l1x_be wrote: post #122
ChrisGreenHeur wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not so sure nintendo would sue someone over wrong details on specifics of usb-c implementations.

Are you familiar that half the memes about Nintendo about suing people over ridicolous violations of their IP?

How is pointing out incompatible hardware related to IP?

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#137

Post by grishka »

arghwhat wrote: post #93
alex_f_k wrote: post #18

From lttlabs: > The inability for most docks to support the Switch 2 may not be malicious from Nintendo. It might just be a poor or lazy implementation of the USB-C specification From the verge [0], 2 months ago: > When I analyze the conversation between the Nintendo Switch 2 and its dock, I can see the two devices begin speaking in Nintendo’s own flavor of “vendor defined” language early in the conversation, before…

There's a lot of misunderstandings about USB PD communication, in particular Vendor Defined Messages. The LTT video kept making this mistake, and mixing in misunderstandings around messages to the eMarker chip itself (SOP'). It was a painful watch. Vendor Defined Messages have is part of any normal PD exchange, as they're simply anything that isn't defined by the PD spec itself. You'll see VDMs when connecting any de…

Why reject switch 1 accessories though? Sure the video resolution will have to be limited to 1080p, but that's kinda expected and I'm sure switch 2 can do that anyway

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#138

Post by fxtentacle »

"Test 5: DR_SWAP always rejected"

That means the monitor tries to change its own role from USB host (which it defaulted to because it's the power source) to USB gadget. And the Switch rejects the request because it sees itself as the USB gadget (for example to exchange data when you connect it to a PC).

The article itself also says "Our monitoring of the interactions with the USB-C monitor shows that the negotiation does not even get to the point of the Vendor Defined Messages(VDM)" so I see no hint of foul play by Nintendo. (And why would they? They are not in the business of selling USB monitors.)

My guess would be that the connection failure is due to a firmware bug in the monitor. But I am also heavily biased here because my last Asus screen had A LOT of firmware issues.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#139

Post by cma »

fxtentacle wrote: post #138

"Test 5: DR_SWAP always rejected" That means the monitor tries to change its own role from USB host (which it defaulted to because it's the power source) to USB gadget. And the Switch rejects the request because it sees itself as the USB gadget (for example to exchange data when you connect it to a PC). The article itself also says "Our monitoring of the interactions with the USB-C monitor shows that the negotiation…

> And why would they? They are not in the business of selling USB monitors

Not true, they block nreal to make them pay the store fee for an enabling app to make their usbc mini monitors work with the switch.

Re: Nintendo Switch 2 Dock USB-C Compatibility

#140

Post by jerf »

bdhcuidbebe wrote: post #136
dev_l1x_be wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you familiar that half the memes about Nintendo about suing people over ridicolous violations of their IP?

How is pointing out incompatible hardware related to IP?

It isn't. The point is that it establishes that they are litigious.

There's a tier above them (Oracle, for instance), but they're pretty up there in their willingness to head to court not just with other big corporations but with individuals.

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