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Undisclosed financial conflicts of interest in DSM-5 (2024)

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Re: Undisclosed financial conflicts of interest in DSM-5 (2024)

#131

Post by bgilroy26 »

suggestion wrote: post #124
KPGv2 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only the catastrophic is worth addressing This is a very privileged view of the mind. I have ADHD (and autism). But I also have a quite high IQ, if one cares about such things. I'm pretty successful, professionally. But it took until around 40yo to get the ADHD diagnosis and get a prescription for medication that has been life-altering. Was I suffering from catastrophic failures? Absolutely not: married, have kids,…

Why do you presume I'm neurotypical and undiagnosed with any psychiatric disorder? I'm formally diagnosed with severe OCD, depression, and ADHD. I was on SSRI, then SNRI and additionally methylphenidate for years. Eventually I got tired for feeling like a shell of a human being, and weaned off of the SNRI. It took a lot of effort to induce neuroplasticity and ease my OCD and depression, but I did it. Eventually, I we…

>I bet if you knew your house would burn down if you didn't do "normal" things you would have done them no problem

Getting yourself to do things in a boring situation that you might only do in an exciting situation is a big challenge in ADHD management

If everything was a "house on fire" level emergency, many ADHDers would get more done but would eventually collapse from running around on adrenaline for days

These problems are not easily solved

Re: Undisclosed financial conflicts of interest in DSM-5 (2024)

#132

Post by maximilianburke »

suggestion wrote: post #124
KPGv2 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only the catastrophic is worth addressing This is a very privileged view of the mind. I have ADHD (and autism). But I also have a quite high IQ, if one cares about such things. I'm pretty successful, professionally. But it took until around 40yo to get the ADHD diagnosis and get a prescription for medication that has been life-altering. Was I suffering from catastrophic failures? Absolutely not: married, have kids,…

Why do you presume I'm neurotypical and undiagnosed with any psychiatric disorder? I'm formally diagnosed with severe OCD, depression, and ADHD. I was on SSRI, then SNRI and additionally methylphenidate for years. Eventually I got tired for feeling like a shell of a human being, and weaned off of the SNRI. It took a lot of effort to induce neuroplasticity and ease my OCD and depression, but I did it. Eventually, I we…

Just because something works for you to lead a normal life doesn’t mean it works for everyone.

Re: Undisclosed financial conflicts of interest in DSM-5 (2024)

#133

Post by KPGv2 »

suggestion wrote: post #124
KPGv2 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only the catastrophic is worth addressing This is a very privileged view of the mind. I have ADHD (and autism). But I also have a quite high IQ, if one cares about such things. I'm pretty successful, professionally. But it took until around 40yo to get the ADHD diagnosis and get a prescription for medication that has been life-altering. Was I suffering from catastrophic failures? Absolutely not: married, have kids,…

Why do you presume I'm neurotypical and undiagnosed with any psychiatric disorder? I'm formally diagnosed with severe OCD, depression, and ADHD. I was on SSRI, then SNRI and additionally methylphenidate for years. Eventually I got tired for feeling like a shell of a human being, and weaned off of the SNRI. It took a lot of effort to induce neuroplasticity and ease my OCD and depression, but I did it. Eventually, I we…

> Why do you presume I'm neurotypical and undiagnosed with any psychiatric disorder?

Because you talk like one, with no apparent empathy for the neurodiverse, except perhaps people with profound issues. "We shouldn't treat any problems except the catastrophically bad." Gross.

> I bet if you knew your house would burn down if you didn't do "normal" things you would have done them no problem.

This is not arguing in favor of your stance, but rather in favor of mine. You're essentially saying "ADHDers can't get shit done without being in dangerous situations, and THAT IS ACCEPTABLE." And yet you think this supports your idea that non-catastrophic disorders shouldn't be treated.

Re: Undisclosed financial conflicts of interest in DSM-5 (2024)

#134

Post by suggestion »

ben_sisko wrote: post #125
suggestion wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't one because a sprained ankle is a binary diagnosis. One of the biggest problems with psychiatry is that every diagnosis is a spectrum, and over time it's become more and more obvious that the boundaries for what is considered "neurotypical" are way too narrow. Depression being a chemical imbalance was a complete lie to sell more medication, and how prolific this type of occurrence is within the industry i…

“Chemical imbalance” lol. You have inadvertently outed yourself as not having a clue by your reply. It’s nothing personal but you just clearly don’t have a clue and/or don’t have skin in the game. It’s fine. I don’t know anything about professional juggling because I have zero skin in that game. Paging Dr. Brochacho: fMRI and brain networks have been around for a while!

You're behind the times

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01661-0

https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/debunking-two-chemical...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/insight-therapy/2022...

Re: Undisclosed financial conflicts of interest in DSM-5 (2024)

#135

Post by lutusp »

In principle, those being accused of a conflict of interest in the creation of DSM-5 could argue that, because the DSM is science-based, it's open to impartial statistical analyses and comparison with established scientific theory that would render moot any such accusation.

But the accused can't offer that defense, because the DSM is not based in science, and that in turn is because because human psychology isn't based in science.

The field of human psychology includes many scientific studies, some of them excellent, up to the point where a testable, falsifiable theory might be crafted based on those studies, but it stops there. Here's why:

For a study to be regarded as science, it must meet certain established standards, and many psychology studies meet or exceed those standards.

But for a field to be regarded as science, its practitioners must craft testable, falsifiable theories, based on natural phenomena, about their topic of study. Human psychology cannot do this, for the simple reason that human psychology studies the mind, and the mind is not part of nature.

In scientific fields, physics for example, a conflict-of-interest accusation is easily resolved: either a claim can be tested and potentially falsified by comparison with the field's defining theories, or it cannot (cold fusion comes to mind). But in psychology this doesn't work, because a claim cannot be compared to the field's testable, falsifiable scientific theories, theories that define the field, because ... wait for it ... such theories don't exist.

And how could such theories exist? Again, human psychology studies the mind, legitimate science must focus on natural (not supernatural) phenomena, and the mind doesn't meet that description -- it's not part of nature.

Neuroscience doesn't have these structural problems, it may someday replace psychology, but we're not there yet, and may not be for decades to come.

Re: Undisclosed financial conflicts of interest in DSM-5 (2024)

#136

Post by lutusp »

plandis wrote: post #85
noosphr wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that in the US slaves wanting freedom was a mental disorder that made it past peer review: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drapetomania

What is your point? Surely you’re not trying to draw some conclusion between an entire countries modern day medical field and a theory a person proposed in the 1800s, right?

> Surely you’re not trying to draw some conclusion between an entire countries modern day medical field and a theory a person proposed in the 1800s, right?

That would depend on whether anything has changed since the 1800s. But that's very clearly not so -- consider that recovered memory therapy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recovered-memory_therapy), based on as much science as drapetomania, was practiced in the 1990s, and still has adherents today.

Also, for human psychology to be regarded as a medical field, it would have to be based in science. But human psychology studies the mind, therefore by definition it's not based in science.

Re: Undisclosed financial conflicts of interest in DSM-5 (2024)

#137

Post by suggestion »

bgilroy26 wrote: post #131
suggestion wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you presume I'm neurotypical and undiagnosed with any psychiatric disorder? I'm formally diagnosed with severe OCD, depression, and ADHD. I was on SSRI, then SNRI and additionally methylphenidate for years. Eventually I got tired for feeling like a shell of a human being, and weaned off of the SNRI. It took a lot of effort to induce neuroplasticity and ease my OCD and depression, but I did it. Eventually, I we…

>I bet if you knew your house would burn down if you didn't do "normal" things you would have done them no problem Getting yourself to do things in a boring situation that you might only do in an exciting situation is a big challenge in ADHD management If everything was a "house on fire" level emergency, many ADHDers would get more done but would eventually collapse from running around on adrenaline for days These pr…

The point is it's obviously a problem of perspective. Things are not important because they aren't considered important. If the stakes are higher they are elevated in importance and more demanding of attention.

To pretend that humans are hedonic beasts incapable of cognitive adaption is ridiculous. We do not operate purely on impulse save for pharmaceutical intervention. We can force ourselves to give things more or less importance regardless of the actual stakes.

Re: Undisclosed financial conflicts of interest in DSM-5 (2024)

#138

Post by suggestion »

KPGv2 wrote: post #133
suggestion wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you presume I'm neurotypical and undiagnosed with any psychiatric disorder? I'm formally diagnosed with severe OCD, depression, and ADHD. I was on SSRI, then SNRI and additionally methylphenidate for years. Eventually I got tired for feeling like a shell of a human being, and weaned off of the SNRI. It took a lot of effort to induce neuroplasticity and ease my OCD and depression, but I did it. Eventually, I we…

> Why do you presume I'm neurotypical and undiagnosed with any psychiatric disorder? Because you talk like one, with no apparent empathy for the neurodiverse, except perhaps people with profound issues. "We shouldn't treat any problems except the catastrophically bad." Gross. > I bet if you knew your house would burn down if you didn't do "normal" things you would have done them no problem. This is not arguing in fav…

[flagged]

Re: Undisclosed financial conflicts of interest in DSM-5 (2024)

#139

Post by suggestion »

maximilianburke wrote: post #132
suggestion wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you presume I'm neurotypical and undiagnosed with any psychiatric disorder? I'm formally diagnosed with severe OCD, depression, and ADHD. I was on SSRI, then SNRI and additionally methylphenidate for years. Eventually I got tired for feeling like a shell of a human being, and weaned off of the SNRI. It took a lot of effort to induce neuroplasticity and ease my OCD and depression, but I did it. Eventually, I we…

Just because something works for you to lead a normal life doesn’t mean it works for everyone.

What the DSM defines as normal is far too narrow and we're too eager for quick fixes without discomfort or discipline.

Re: Undisclosed financial conflicts of interest in DSM-5 (2024)

#140

Post by jay_kyburz »

KPGv2 wrote: post #122
suggestion wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't one because a sprained ankle is a binary diagnosis. One of the biggest problems with psychiatry is that every diagnosis is a spectrum, and over time it's become more and more obvious that the boundaries for what is considered "neurotypical" are way too narrow. Depression being a chemical imbalance was a complete lie to sell more medication, and how prolific this type of occurrence is within the industry i…

> only the catastrophic is worth addressing This is a very privileged view of the mind. I have ADHD (and autism). But I also have a quite high IQ, if one cares about such things. I'm pretty successful, professionally. But it took until around 40yo to get the ADHD diagnosis and get a prescription for medication that has been life-altering. Was I suffering from catastrophic failures? Absolutely not: married, have kids,…

Hold on.. did you just say there is a drug I can take that will making talking to people less boring and doing housework fun?
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