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Do I not like Ruby anymore? (2024)

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Re: Do I not like Ruby anymore? (2024)

#131

Post by benrutter »

blubber wrote: post #57
benrutter wrote: post #30

I'm a python developer, and a big fan of the features with gradual typing etc. This article really highlights for me though, how python has very much changed from the language it was even 5 years ago. Initially, the celebrated feature of python was that it allowed easy and fast development for newcomers. There was a joke a long the lines, "I learned python, it was a great weekend". As much as I like python's type sys…

You're going to love the equivalent Haskell example.

You can't leave me hanging and not give it!

Re: Do I not like Ruby anymore? (2024)

#132

Post by quesera »

frumiousirc wrote: post #70
nromiun wrote: post #50

> Python is not my favorite programming language. In fact, allow me to drop the euphemism and express my pure, unadulterated thoughts about it: I never liked Python, I see it as a huge red flag and I think the world would be a better place if we all decided to finally move on from it. Why do people make hating a tool their entire personality? I have noticed this same thing with languages like Go ("oh no Go still bad"…

> It would be like hating a screwdriver. I hate Philips screwdrivers (but love JIS).

Exactly!

Both Python and Ruby are screwdrivers.

In my highly opinionated opinion, the parallels are:

  - Flat head: Perl. Functional, and revolutionary at the time! But awkward to work with.
  - Phillips head: Python. Awesome improvement, much easier to work with. But still annoying in frustrating ways.
  - JIS: Ruby. A further refinement that resolves the last annoying 5% of work. (Well, OK, resolves 4 of the last 5%) ... (Also Japanese, coincidentally?)
... and in the real world, when you don't get to choose, you almost always find Phillips/Python. Better is good enough. :)

Re: Do I not like Ruby anymore? (2024)

#133

Post by benrutter »

Daishiman wrote: post #54
benrutter wrote: post #30

I'm a python developer, and a big fan of the features with gradual typing etc. This article really highlights for me though, how python has very much changed from the language it was even 5 years ago. Initially, the celebrated feature of python was that it allowed easy and fast development for newcomers. There was a joke a long the lines, "I learned python, it was a great weekend". As much as I like python's type sys…

All due respect but Typer looks like the kind of library that you want to use after your CLI has enough args that you wouldn't be able to get away with the sort of "Hello World" simplicity that you pine for. Nobody's stopping you from manually parsing a couple of arguments. I still do it all the time and it's OK. If anything the magic of gradual typing is that you get to use it as necessity arises.

I think your completely fair in pointing out that only a deeply troubled person would write this up as a generic version of "hello world", it's a silly example and I was at least partly going OTT for comic effect.

That said, I think it's true that production python tends to look more like my example, and less `print("hello world")`.

Re: Do I not like Ruby anymore? (2024)

#134

Post by tasuki »

BariumBlue wrote: post #128
pmkary wrote: post #11

Back when autocompletion and stuff were only available in Visual Studio/Xcode/Other bug IDEs, I was forced to use Ruby and fell in love with it. It didn't matter what I used as my editor was Sublime. But when VSCode came and language features became democratized, I never touched a type-less language again. Why should someone opt for a language with absolutely no features where one can have autocompletion, typecheckin…

Lack of types is one thing that turned me away from Elixir when I was trying to learn it. I didn't know how to think about the types so I wanted some way to annotate them to help think through it, but went through it. And then the compiler complained at me I was passing in the wrong type to a function. I mean yes thanks? But also give me a way to figure that out BEFORE I try running the code.

Try Gleam!

Re: Do I not like Ruby anymore? (2024)

#135

Post by fknorangesite »

k__ wrote: post #58
nromiun wrote: post #50

> Python is not my favorite programming language. In fact, allow me to drop the euphemism and express my pure, unadulterated thoughts about it: I never liked Python, I see it as a huge red flag and I think the world would be a better place if we all decided to finally move on from it. Why do people make hating a tool their entire personality? I have noticed this same thing with languages like Go ("oh no Go still bad"…

Especially strong from someone using Ruby, which is basically Hipster-Python. /s

> Hipster

Is it 2007 again already?

Re: Do I not like Ruby anymore? (2024)

#136

Post by ninetyninenine »

nromiun wrote: post #50

> Python is not my favorite programming language. In fact, allow me to drop the euphemism and express my pure, unadulterated thoughts about it: I never liked Python, I see it as a huge red flag and I think the world would be a better place if we all decided to finally move on from it. Why do people make hating a tool their entire personality? I have noticed this same thing with languages like Go ("oh no Go still bad"…

I know why. People can hate tools if the tools are frustrating to use. The frustration causes anger and hate.

I know this is hard to understand for logical genius savants like you. A lot of HNers are like that and don’t understand human emotions.

Re: Do I not like Ruby anymore? (2024)

#137

Post by benrutter »

nromiun wrote: post #50

> Python is not my favorite programming language. In fact, allow me to drop the euphemism and express my pure, unadulterated thoughts about it: I never liked Python, I see it as a huge red flag and I think the world would be a better place if we all decided to finally move on from it. Why do people make hating a tool their entire personality? I have noticed this same thing with languages like Go ("oh no Go still bad"…

> If you don't like a language simply don't use it, there are hundreds of alternatives. If your employer is making you write in that language you should hate your employer, not the language.

I think this is tricky. I work in the world of data and, although I like python fine, I'd find it very hard to find a role in my field that doesn't involve, if not working in python, then at least integrating very closely with work data-scientists produce that's in python.

Some languages just have a big dominance in their field. Python has that for data, and javascript for front-end.

Re: Do I not like Ruby anymore? (2024)

#138

Post by makeitdouble »

cogman10 wrote: post #123
matltc wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone coming from Ruby to TypeScript, I find types cumbersome, verbose, complex, and not of much use. I have been writing and reading TS for the past six months. What am I missing?

Types really start pulling their own weight as the size of an application increases. In order to catch problems in dynamic type languages you end up needing a bunch of additional tests to, ironically, verify the expected type. And even then, those tests don't and can't tell you how a method is actually used throughout the program. Consider the following class class Human def initialize(name) @name = name end end Now…

> let the compiler tell you

That's really the crux of it. Types are a way to talk to the compiler and it will be your primary target. Humans will also benefit somehow, but it's secundary and they won't be the one who'll give you a tough time.

I see it:

- strict types guarantee the compiler is happy but you'll need to bend yourself to make sure it actually matches your intent

- loose types help you properly express your intent, but you're one the hook to make sure the interpretor does what you said.

Re: Do I not like Ruby anymore? (2024)

#139

Post by klibertp »

nurettin wrote: post #76
wild_egg wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lisp was absolutely meant to be used that way.

What I meant was how (op modifier *params) "homomorphism" is praised by literally everyone and their dog and it is simply worse than params.op1(modifier).op2(modifier)

What GP (probably) meant is that in Lisp you're supposed to write macros, and when you do, this "is simply not worse" than the dotted message sends:

    (-> params (op1 mod2) (op2 mod2))
        params .op1(mod2) .op2(mod2)
There's a reason why just about every Lisp currently in use[1] has `->`/`->>`[2] macros: they're just so easy to write that not having them would be strange. Same with |> in OCaml - with currying, it's literally just `let (|>) x f = f x;;`. So, while it's true that Lisp (or OCaml) base language doesn't have the particular convenience, it's also true that in Lisp (and, in this case, in OCaml) you are meant to extend the language to allow such conveniences.

[1] With a glorious exception of PicoLisp, because quote is all you'll ever need.

[2] And more! With `doto` you have Smalltalk/Dart cascades, with `nest` (https://github.com/ruricolist/serapeum/blob/master/REFERENCE...) you have decorators, etc.

Re: Do I not like Ruby anymore? (2024)

#140

Post by iainctduncan »

As someone who loves Scheme (author of a Scheme exenstion for computer music, Scheme for Max), and who has done lots of Python and little Ruby, I find this odd. To me, Ruby is a much further departure from Scheme. At least in Python I can do something close to functional programming with primitives, though I don't get symbols. Ruby's "everything is an object" has always seemed to me to be even a further departure.

But then I really don't know Ruby, so happy to be told why this is wrong...

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