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Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

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Re: Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

#131
post #67

One thing that's not clear in the write-up here: *which* audit log is he talking about? Sharepoint file accesses? Copilot actions? Purview? Something else?

I asked ChatGPT the same thing and got

> The system being referred to in that explanation is Microsoft 365 (M365) / Office 365 audit logging, specifically the Unified Audit Log in the Microsoft Purview Compliance Portal.

Re: Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

#132
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah-- I feel like I have my eyes pretty wide open about the shortcomings of LLMs (but still find them useful often). But any argument seeking to dunk on LLMs needs to not also apply equally to the alternative (humans).

And, wouldn't you know it, it actually does not also apply equally to the alternative (humans).

How much of it doesn't? We're deterministic? (aren't we less deterministic than LLMs?) All of our training is auditable? (there's a wealth of unknown experiences in each person writing code, to say nothing of the unknown and irrelevant experiences in our evolutionary background).

Maybe you can argue we don't use statistical completion and prediction as a heavy underpinning to our reasoning, but that's hardly settled.

Nah-- you will have to try harder to make an argument that really focuses on how LLMs are different from the alternative.

Re: Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

#133
post #131
post #67

One thing that's not clear in the write-up here: *which* audit log is he talking about? Sharepoint file accesses? Copilot actions? Purview? Something else?

I asked ChatGPT the same thing and got > The system being referred to in that explanation is Microsoft 365 (M365) / Office 365 audit logging, specifically the Unified Audit Log in the Microsoft Purview Compliance Portal.

Have you confirmed that this is true?

Re: Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say "insecure by default". I talked to some Microsoft folks around the Windows Server 2025 launch, where they claimed they would be breaking more compatibility in the name of their Secure Future Initiative. But Server 2025 will load malicious ads on the Edge start screen[1] if you need to access a web interface of an internal thing from your domain controller, and they gleefully announced including winget, a…

Servers don't have Desktop GUI, so there is no way you can run a browser on a real server installation. That's done specifically to limit the attack surface. This applies to almost all Windows Server roles except very few such as ADFS which Microsoft is struggling to migrate for decades. Definitely to the root of all security - AD DC. If you've elected to create a Frankenstein of a domain controller and a desktop/gam…

Hi! It sounds like you are not a systems engineer! Let me help:

When installing Windows Server, there is a "core" experience and a "desktop" experience option. The former is now the default, but nearly all enterprise software not made by Microsoft (and some that is made by Microsoft) require the latter. Including many tools which expect to run on domain controllers! Some software says it requires the GUI but you can trick into running without if you're clever and adventurous.

No GUI is definitely the future and the way to go when you can, but even the most aggressive environments with avoiding the GUI end up with a mix of both.

Speaking of a gaming PC, Edge on Windows Server is so badly implemented, I have a server that is CPU pegged from a botched install of "Edge Game Mode" a feature for letting you use Edge in an overlay while gaming. I don't think it should have been auto installed on Windows Server, but I guess those engineers at Microsoft making triple my salary know better!

Re: Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

#135
post #8

Wait, copilot operates as some privileged user (that can bypass audit?), not as you (or better, you with some restrictions) That can’t be right, can it?

As someone else mentioned the file isnt actually accessed by copilot, rather copilot is reading the pre-indexed contents of the file in a search engine... Really Microsoft should be auditing the search that copilot executes, its actually a bit misleading to be auditing the file as accessed when copilot has only read the indexed content of the file, I don't say I've visited a website when I've found a result of it in…

What's the solution then? Chain 2 AIs, the first one is fine tuned on / has RAG access to your content telling a second that actually produces content what files are relevant (and logged)?

Or just a system prompt "log where all the info comes from"...

Re: Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

#137
post #8

Wait, copilot operates as some privileged user (that can bypass audit?), not as you (or better, you with some restrictions) That can’t be right, can it?

It's not necessarily that Copilot has superuser access, it's more like the audit system isn't wired tightly enough to catch all the ways Copilot can retrieve data

Re: Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

#139
post #8

Wait, copilot operates as some privileged user (that can bypass audit?), not as you (or better, you with some restrictions) That can’t be right, can it?

As someone else mentioned the file isnt actually accessed by copilot, rather copilot is reading the pre-indexed contents of the file in a search engine... Really Microsoft should be auditing the search that copilot executes, its actually a bit misleading to be auditing the file as accessed when copilot has only read the indexed content of the file, I don't say I've visited a website when I've found a result of it in…

That makes sense on a technical level, but from a security and compliance perspective, it still doesn't really hold up

Re: Copilot broke audit logs, but Microsoft won't tell customers

#140
post #79

> CVEs are given to fixes deployed in security releases when customers need to take action to stay protected. In this case, the mitigation will be automatically pushed to Copilot, where users do not need to manually update the product and a CVE will not be assigned. Is this a feature of CVE or of Microsoft's way of using CVE? It would seem this vulnerability would still benefit from having a common ID to be refrenced…

Yeah, this feels more like Microsoft bending the CVE process to fit their PR needs than a limitation of CVEs themselves
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