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The electric fence stopped working years ago

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Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#131

Post by nuancebydefault »

stroz wrote: post #119
nuancebydefault wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently realized that I had lingering old pains and those were triggered by someone going through a similar experience and I literally felt their pain. It took me a lot of digging in my mind, peeling off layers, to understand even what the root pains are. Sending a message to someone and potentially not getting any (meaningful) back is something I find very hard to accept, though I know not responding is often not…

The fear of no response is real. It's not about logic, it's about old wounds. What helps is sending messages with zero expectation. Treat it like throwing paper airplanes. Some fly, some don't. And that's completely ok! The ones that don't fly aren't rejections, they're just physics.

Thank you stranger, for this valuable metaphor! I'm on it!

Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#132

Post by jonahx »

singpolyma3 wrote: post #130
jonahx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The message doesn't have any warnings on it like "oh I know it's been a while" or "you might not remember me". Yes. I do this too and wish more people would. The qualifications, the "what have you been up to?"s -- such mind-numbingly boring conventions. Who wants to go through a "catchup" interview before talking about what's interesting. If that's the price, it's not worth it.

But like, "what have you been up to" is useful because it gives them a chance to mention something interesting that you can then have a conversation about.

I'd say it's a "know your audience" question. It can work well for more extroverted people that enjoy an opportunity to talk about themselves.

But it's also low-effort and asks the other person to do all the conversational work. For me, personally, if I saw an old friend's number pop up on my phone and magically knew "what have you been up to?" was going to be the first question, I wouldn't answer. Otoh, if I knew the opener was going to be "You're gonna love this story..." I'd be excited to pick up.

Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#133

Post by stroz »

hermannj314 wrote: post #121

Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Insanity is also assuming the electric fence that shocked you a hundred times is still turned on. So no matter what you do it is wrong unless it works, then you are a genius. I am not sure how to use this advice.

You captured the human condition perfectly. We're all walking contradictions trying to guess which fences are real.

One way to look at it is to just test one fence. Just one. If it shocks you, now you know. If it doesn't, now you're free. And either way, you're now no longer guessing.

Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#134

Post by stroz »

integralid wrote: post #109
derefr wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since we're talking about people you used to be closer with — presumably the same kind of stuff you would have talked to them about "back in the day", when you were already continuously aware of what they've been up to because you were up to it alongside them / constantly making plans with them / hearing what they were doing from shared other friends / etc.

I'm thinking how it would work. What should I talk about - programming frameworks and techniques I don't care about anymore? Rock bands I don't listen to? Shared friends I don't know now? Current school/uni things? Magic the gathering cards? Anime? Rock climbing? I don't know about anything I have in common with my old friends. But maybe, just maybe, it we catch up we can talk about kids or best back pain medicine. O…

It's so easy to overthink the content when it's about the contact. What if it's just "saw this and thought of you"? Could be anything. The connection isn't in having the perfect topic, it's in remembering the connection exists.

Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#135

Post by stroz »

Crackula wrote: post #125

just remember that checking the electric fence is very similar to a prisoners dillema. if you check it, youre in the right and if the fence no longer works its a win situation but if the fence still works you're not only experiencing the immediate pain, there will also be long term consequences to how you program yourself

You're right, it's definitely a prisoner's dilemma. Except in this version, the punishment is usually just awkwardness, and the reward is sometimes igniting life changing connections. It's asymmetrical reward.

Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#136

Post by SequoiaHope »

shazbotter wrote: post #113
lordnacho wrote: post #8

This is right. People ask my how on earth I know what every one of my high school classmates is up to, when we were the last class of the millennium. Along with a number of old teachers and other randoms from years ago. I just stopped having a filter. When I think of someone, I just fire off a message. The message doesn't have any warnings on it like "oh I know it's been a while" or "you might not remember me". I wri…

I'm autistic, and what you describe doing sounds impossible to me. I live in constant fear of inconveniencing others. I personally find it inconvenient when someone outside my close circle wants my time. It's expensive for me to perform socialness, so I tend to assume it's not free for others as well and avoid placing that burden on them.

I learned from my therapist to stop trying to change my behavior based on how I predict other people will feel. If someone has expressed a clear boundary that is one thing, but otherwise I will not assume “I texted too much already I don’t want to bother them” or “I shouldn’t say the thing that’s on my mind they probably don’t want to hear it.” I still need to keep track of when I am genuinely talking too much around people sensitive to that (I check in with people, and it varies per person based on conversational styles) but now I allow myself to express what I want to express and I have a lot less anxiety about what other people think. My therapist describes the tendency to modify our behavior based on the predicted comfort of others as codependency or people pleasing, which might be useful things to research. Changing yourself is not easy or trivial, but over the course of time, we can change and grow a lot in life. Doing so has been a decades long effort but I am so much better with social interactions these days, and it has been quite rewarding to get here.

Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#137

Post by Ray20 »

shazbotter wrote: post #113
lordnacho wrote: post #8

This is right. People ask my how on earth I know what every one of my high school classmates is up to, when we were the last class of the millennium. Along with a number of old teachers and other randoms from years ago. I just stopped having a filter. When I think of someone, I just fire off a message. The message doesn't have any warnings on it like "oh I know it's been a while" or "you might not remember me". I wri…

I'm autistic, and what you describe doing sounds impossible to me. I live in constant fear of inconveniencing others. I personally find it inconvenient when someone outside my close circle wants my time. It's expensive for me to perform socialness, so I tend to assume it's not free for others as well and avoid placing that burden on them.

Why not just start making conscious decisions?

Like "Here's my path to statistical victory/social success/meeting needs. Chances are, it'll be in some small degree inconvenient for others, it'll be rude to them, it'll make them angry, and it'll put a burden on them. Will it worth my chances on victory/social success/meeting needs?"

Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#139

Post by jrm4 »

As someone who is 48 and could stand to do a bit more of this myself; I find myself alarmed and shocked at the extent to which younger folks appear to have normalized "social fear."

I remember being younger in college and me and friends were talking about dating and whatnot, and I'm just like -- look, you'll have a much better time, you just gotta get over your fear of rejection. And I was surprised then to the extent that people looked at me and got genuinely offended, like "how dare you not take how TRAUMATIC this can be seriously."

And this generation feels a lot like that. Most of those friends ended up agreeing with me, and I do get that it FEELS bad to, e.g. look stupid or whatever in such a situation -- but the fact that it's an "intense feeling" doesn't mean I'm at all wrong here -- if better socialization is what you actually want.*

*edit, and so I suppose what might be useful is to better hit this head on in our public discussions? Love this article for that.

Re: The electric fence stopped working years ago

#140

Post by D-Coder »

missinglugnut wrote: post #71
kelnos wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replace "fake" with "pointless", then. Or if that sounds harsh, "unproductive".

Let me suggest "unhelpful". That's my word for when I don't want to spend time judging a thought/concept/emotion but do want to point out it's not taking me where I want to go in life.

"Nonoptimal" is my preference.
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