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The Framework Desktop is a beast

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Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#131

Post by geerlingguy »

TiredOfLife wrote: post #103
DiabloD3 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CUDA isn't really used for new code. Its used for legacy codebases. In the LLM world, you really only see CUDA being used with Triton and/or PyTorch consumers that haven't moved onto better pastures (mainly because they only know Python and aren't actually programmers). That said, AMD can run most CUDA code through ROCm, and AMD officially supports Triton and PyTorch, so even the academics have a way out of Nvidia he…

ROCm doesn't work on this device

You mean the AI Max chips? ROCm works fine there, as long as you're running 6.4.1 or later, no hacks required. I tested on Fedora Rawhide and it was just dnf install rocm.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#132

Post by geerlingguy »

Rohansi wrote: post #98
jeroenhd wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Mac Studio (at least the M3 Ultra model) blows the Framework out of the water when it comes to AI performance, though, at least according to this (Dutch language) benchmark: https://tweakers.net/reviews/13614/framework-desktop-de-fram... Paying twice the price for twice to seven times the performance may not be such a bad thing. Then again, with Apple you're kind of stuck with macOS and the like, so Framework may…

The M3 Ultra also consumes a lot more power because Strix Halo is actually a chip for laptops. The Framework here is a desktop but that doesn't change what AMD prioritized when building this chip.

The M3 Ultra is more efficient both on the CPU and GPU side.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#133

Post by heraldgeezer »

Not really.

A laptop CPU defeats the purpose. Get a 9800X3D for gaming will be waaaay faster or Threadripper for productivity or the 9950X3D chips with 16 cores/32 threads.

Why this laptop crap when you can get a nice PC case.

Then again he thinks the Fractal North was "bulky"? What?

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#134

Post by distances »

epistasis wrote: post #54
onli wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is still right. It is a desktop PC that is less repairable than all other desktop PCs, from a brand that is known to champion repairability. They had a reason for it, but could've chosen to not create more throwaway things.

I have been continuously baffled by the people that think that soldered on RAM is somehow "throwaway". My last desktop build is eight years old and I have never upgraded the ram. Never will. My next build will have an entirely new motherboard, ram, and GPU, and the last set will end up at the ewaste recycler, because who could I find that wants that old hardware? Soldered RAM, CPU, and GPU, that give space benefits a…

> the last set will end up at the ewaste recycler, because who could I find that wants that old hardware?

You might be surprised. Living in a large city, everything I have put for sale has found a new owner. Old and seemingly useless computer hardware, HDMI cables that don't support 4K, worn-out cutlery, hairdryer that's missing parts, non-functional amplifier, the list goes on. If the price is right (=very low), someone has always showed up in person to carry these away. And I'm always very upfront about any deficiencies so that they know what they're getting.

I'd say a common profile for the new owner is young people who have just moved and are on a shoestring budget.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#136

Post by rs186 »

jamesgill wrote: post #67

I like Framework and own one of their laptops. But the desktop seems more a triumph of gimmicky marketing than a desktop that's meaningfully different. And, it seems significantly overpriced.

If you can't find an sufficiently similar alternative that is priced at a much better price, it is not overpriced.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#137

Post by vaylian »

politelemon wrote: post #135

I could do with someone explaining to me (sorry not very advanced knowledge in this area), how did Framework manage this performance at a lower price point? And why can't average Joe at PCPartPicker do something like this?

The key piece is AMD's high-end AI CPU. The whole desktop is literally built around it, to take full advantage of it.

AMD reached out to Framework and said "Hey, we have this new CPU, do you want to do something with it?". And the engineers at Framework jumped at the opportunity.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#138

Post by jychang »

politelemon wrote: post #135

I could do with someone explaining to me (sorry not very advanced knowledge in this area), how did Framework manage this performance at a lower price point? And why can't average Joe at PCPartPicker do something like this?

AMD Ryzen AI Max 395+ as the APU (CPU + GPU), and its corresponding soldered LPDDR5X RAM, which has a super fast memory bandwidth of 256GB/sec.

So the CPU and RAM are soldered on the motherboard.

You can buy just the motherboard from Framework: https://frame.work/products/framework-desktop-mainboard-amd-...

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#139

Post by angst »

ilaksh wrote: post #111

How does that Framework Desktop compare with the "GMKtec AI Mini Ryzen Al Max+ 395 128GB" mini PC? I suspect this one is very similar hardware and a slightly better deal if you give up the cool factor of Framework. Although I don't really know. Anyone compared them head-to-head?

same CPU, likely a different TDP setting.

This comparison uses hp G1a but I imagine it wouldnt be too far off from GMKtec: https://www.phoronix.com/review/framework-desktop-linux/9

Framework can be fed with more power to support better sustained performance is my understanding.

Re: The Framework Desktop is a beast

#140

Post by [deleted] »

heraldgeezer wrote: post #133

Not really. A laptop CPU defeats the purpose. Get a 9800X3D for gaming will be waaaay faster or Threadripper for productivity or the 9950X3D chips with 16 cores/32 threads. Why this laptop crap when you can get a nice PC case. Then again he thinks the Fractal North was "bulky"? What?

[deleted]
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