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Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

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131–140 of 328 posts

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#131
post #10

It's really telling when an invaluable intellectual powerhouse specialized in a non politicized field gets its funds taken away because of politics Edit: This is a comment about the administration, not Tao.

thats why they should refrain from engaging in politics in the first place. the day the wind changes you lose.

Are you saying the 6 NSF-funded math institutes (IPAM being one) are engaging in politics?

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you are not a "Beamte", i.e. a special case of state employee, yes.

Sorry I don't buy it. Which examples are there of academics going against the government policies and still keeping their jobs and funds? I lived in Germany and the moment you don't do what the government says you get the full shaft. Nobody let's you rebel against the government with no consequences, not in US, not in Germany, not in UK, nowhere. People painting Germany like a bastion of free speech are coping hard.…

It's hard to prove a negative. Can you show us an example of anything like what's happening at UCLA (collective punishment of an entire institution) or an example of an individual professor being harshly penalized or sanctioned for expressing personal political opinions?

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#133

This is a tragedy. Our pre-eminence as a scientific and industrial powerhouse that really began post WWII is now disintegrating because of the actions of a few. The funding being pulled from Terence Tao and his institute without due process is not the start, it's merely one casualty among many that began at the start of this administration. This is like cutting one's nose to spite one's face.

Punishing urban intellectuals for being urban intellectuals appears to be a common theme in a lot of right wing American messaging and the Republican Party won the popular vote. You can’t put this on a few. It’s the genuine desire of the American voter.

A majority of the voters voted for people other than Trump.

Edit: come on people, read things in context. I was responding to someone who was implying that a majority of American voters support this. To support that assertion about any President's policies at a minimum you need that President to have received a majority of the popular vote.

When third parties get enough votes that a President gets a plurality but not a majority you can't really infer anything about what a majority of voters want.

Even if all the third parties were on the same side of the left/right spectrum as the President's party you can't infer much because if those voters agreed with most or all of the President's policies they would have voted for the President.

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#134
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i agree with you, but i think it's been the case in the US for the past 15 years already. The only difference is trump pushing toward different issues than biden.

Which president did anything like this anywhere close to that scale? You are getting confused by propaganda.

It was much less a one-man thing, i agree. Looking at the US debates from europe however, I have the feeling monolithic thinking was very much in place in academia on a wide range of topics (gender theory, climate change, israel support, vaccine mandate, etc).

And not just academia if i look at zuckerberg's testimony over federal government censoring people arbitrarily on the platforms.

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which way is the situation far worse in Europe?

Funding levels are lower. Salaries are lower. In physics, from the places I know in the US, about half of the faculty is foreign, and about 30% is German. This is at top universities. That wouldn't be the case if these people would find similar conditions in Europe. But it can change quickly.

Hard to argue it's lower than zero. Not to mention that low and consistent is better than moderate but at the whim of a tyrant.

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#136

3 months ago, we were all wondering why the EU proudly launched their "Choose EU for Science" campaign, despite having much lower funding levels than in the US. If they predicted this, then their actions would make a lot of sense. It is notoriously difficult for scientists to change careers after years in research. For people cut off from US funding like this, a EU-guaranteed middle-class income will appear much more…

Scientists please come to the EU, we can't pay you much, you won't be able to find a place to live and we don't do air conditioning, but plz come.

/s

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I know, some received the death threats because they were Jewish, some because they supported Israel. One of them had the photos of the missing hostages up on the door. They were torn down repeatedly.

It's a strongly divisive issue. A number of the protestors on campus were Jewish and upset with the behaviour of factions in Israel. From my reading of material across several countries and various points of view a lot of death threats were thrown about at a great many people spanning all sides of the dispute.

My point is this: I do think that some universities gave the protestors way too much leeway. It clearly created a hostile work environment for some - Jewish, and I grant you also Muslim students. The universities responsibility is to keep that in check, and some failed badly. Some did better.

I also want to add my own observation, which might be biased: There was a clear, sizeable fraction of the protests that was beyond "pro-Palestine / anti-Israel's Palestine policy". There was celebration of Hamas and of the attack, especially in the first days.

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#138

This is a tragedy. Our pre-eminence as a scientific and industrial powerhouse that really began post WWII is now disintegrating because of the actions of a few. The funding being pulled from Terence Tao and his institute without due process is not the start, it's merely one casualty among many that began at the start of this administration. This is like cutting one's nose to spite one's face.

Punishing urban intellectuals for being urban intellectuals appears to be a common theme in a lot of right wing American messaging and the Republican Party won the popular vote. You can’t put this on a few. It’s the genuine desire of the American voter.

Few Americans pay enough attention to politics to expect this, and less than a third of the country voted for this regime anyway.

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#139

It's really telling when an invaluable intellectual powerhouse specialized in a non politicized field gets its funds taken away because of politics Edit: This is a comment about the administration, not Tao.

Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you. - Pericles

Or, to quote his lesser-known cousin:

"I thought I was safe in my hideout, but a kick to the groin proved me wrong." -Testicles

Re: Terence Tao on the suspension of UCLA grants

#140
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i agree with you, but i think it's been the case in the US for the past 15 years already. The only difference is trump pushing toward different issues than biden.

False equivalence nonsense. If you can't see the difference between Trump's authoritarian actions and the Biden presidency, you are blinded by your own personal biases.

The style is very different, for sure. But testimonies of people feeling threatened over their academic career based on political statements on controversial topics isn't a new thing.

Don't get me wrong : i'm not defending what's happening here. It's absurd and a very bad sign for US democracy. What i'm saying is that people only wake up when they're the ones in the crosshairs.

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