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The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

theguardian.com

131–140 of 159 posts

Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#131
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they paid into it their whole life. So, it is their dime not the current taxpayer’s. The taxpayer is paying for their own future.

That's not how state pensions or state healthcare works.

Which is why we should be against taxpayer-funded healthcare: You don't get to make some of these decisions because you aren't paying for it.

Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#132
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it’s easy to say but you do hear stories of families going to extraordinary lengths for an elderly loved one to give them a couple months of low quality of life. Is it the family trying to feel better or hoping for a miracle, or the patient themselves; I’m sure it’s both, but I can’t help but think if we were more comfortable with death, these really costly situations would go away and suffering would actually…

The last thing you think of when your loved one is on the edge is if you can save money for the system

Totally agree. Just in those cases where death in the next month is inevitable and significant suffering is guaranteed, I guess to me (right now) it’s more about acceptance and mercy.

Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#133
I just watched the trailer... and yeah... that fits with what I've seen tangentially through my wife's career, and the stories she brought home.

In the ER, you at least have a doctor on staff. I can't imagine what it's like to be an understaffed floor nurse. Given the oncoming Tsunami of hospital closures and funding cuts, it's going to get much, much worse here in the US.

Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#134
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eurostat average full time salary 2022 for Spain is €31k. 2021 average nurse salary €38k. While mean is not median the stats seem to show much less of a difference than your figures. For comparison in the US median full time wage is $66k while median nurses wages is $86k. Nursing is a skilled occupation requiring a bachelors degree. Seems good they get paid around average wages for graduates. https://ec.europa.eu/eur…

Averages as well as you say are useless. You know this, so I don’t know why you bring averages up. I specifically mentioned the most common salary, not the average or the mean, which are completely skewed. You should also research the salaries of other people who also have a “bachelor’s degree” as you call it. That is, if they get employment and don’t have to emigrate.

That looks like probably median _income_ (ie would include people on social welfare, pensions, part-time workers). Data seems a bit all over the place, but most estimates of median full-time seem to be around 2000eur/month. Spanish min wage is 1184/month for a full-timer, so it's virtually impossible that median full-time income would be only 75 eur more than that.

Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#135
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people are surprised to learn the the average wage for both plumbers and electricians is ~30 bucks an hour, then that’s in exchange for body breaking work. A small subset earn more, but it’s not the norm.

Union electricians and plumbers make good money, and the non-union shops that do commercial work have to pay close to union wages plus some fringes to get enough manpower. I pay $100/hr for a union journeyworker electrician in a metro area of ~3 million, $106 for a foreman, and $112 for a general foreman. Both of those include fringes, the split is about 55/45 or so. The contracts are for three-year terms with raises…

> I pay $100/hr for a union journeyworker electrician in a metro area of ~3 million, $106 for a foreman, and $112 for a general foreman.

Genuine question: Why?

I picked the Cincinnati MSA, as an example, as it’s both bigger than yours and is likely to have unionized work.

BLS says the 90th quartile is still only ~90k which while certainly not bad, is only the top 10%.

Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#136
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the US, nursing does not require a 4 year degree. You can become an RN with an associates degree. A 2 year nursing degree has one of the highest returns on investment of any training program (especially if you go to community college). Ivy Tech CC in Indiana and WGU both have nursing programs with great returns. Keep in mind, nursing is not an easy path and has a super high burnout rate. It's a tough and…

A lot of people are surprised to learn the the average wage for both plumbers and electricians is ~30 bucks an hour, then that’s in exchange for body breaking work. A small subset earn more, but it’s not the norm.

Reminds me of when I lived in a shit meth town. Dead economy, propped up entirely by a single military base. Lots of drugs and violence. Most people I knew there worked a shitty low skilled job and sold meth.

One guy I knew had it in his head he could just go back to school for welding and make 6 figures. Of course that didn’t work out. Turns out the local CC doesn’t have anything for underwater welding. Welding programs for sure, but mostly designed to funnel workers into local, lower paying positions that need filled.

I have a suspicion this push towards blue collars jobs is just another learn to code grift.

Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#137
post #78

If I could change one thing about healthcare, it would be how we handle end of life care. Sadly, hospitals are full of 80-90+ year old people who cannot walk or talk for years, advanced dementia plus many other serious comorbidities, with severe malnutrition and recurrent aspiration pneumonia, with large non-healing sacral ulcers, who shit and piss themselves, and the family continues to insist we "do everything" to…

>Sadly, hospitals are full of 80-90+ year old people who cannot ... and the family continues to insist we "do everything" to help this person. so what? It is on their dime, not yours. If i'm a 90 years old and wanna drag my existence out it is my choice as long as i'm paying for it, directly or through insurance (and Medicare is an insurance too btw) It is easy to suggest to terminate lives earlier when it isn't your…

> One should be glad that such a large sector of economy - healthcare - has a great stable demand and a great labor market.

This is not the tourism industry, a “great stable demand” is sick and suffering people.

The hospital has limited resources, which are being taken up by people who have no hope of getting better (they ain’t getting younger). A push to do everything we can to stop them from dying buys us what? A few more months of pain and delirium before we reach the same result.

Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Union electricians and plumbers make good money, and the non-union shops that do commercial work have to pay close to union wages plus some fringes to get enough manpower. I pay $100/hr for a union journeyworker electrician in a metro area of ~3 million, $106 for a foreman, and $112 for a general foreman. Both of those include fringes, the split is about 55/45 or so. The contracts are for three-year terms with raises…

> I pay $100/hr for a union journeyworker electrician in a metro area of ~3 million, $106 for a foreman, and $112 for a general foreman. Genuine question: Why? I picked the Cincinnati MSA, as an example, as it’s both bigger than yours and is likely to have unionized work. BLS says the 90th quartile is still only ~90k which while certainly not bad, is only the top 10%.

> Genuine question: Why?

Because.. that’s what the union charges my employer per hour for an electrician? I don’t have a choice lol

Cincinnati is a rust belt city with depressed wages (no offense to anyone that lives there, but it’s the truth), my market is higher income (Minneapolis/St Paul) where a journeyworker makes $57/hr on the check instead of $38/hr like in Ohio, which is 1.5x (!!) higher.

Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I pay $100/hr for a union journeyworker electrician in a metro area of ~3 million, $106 for a foreman, and $112 for a general foreman. Genuine question: Why? I picked the Cincinnati MSA, as an example, as it’s both bigger than yours and is likely to have unionized work. BLS says the 90th quartile is still only ~90k which while certainly not bad, is only the top 10%.

> Genuine question: Why? Because.. that’s what the union charges my employer per hour for an electrician? I don’t have a choice lol Cincinnati is a rust belt city with depressed wages (no offense to anyone that lives there, but it’s the truth), my market is higher income (Minneapolis/St Paul) where a journeyworker makes $57/hr on the check instead of $38/hr like in Ohio, which is 1.5x (!!) higher.

Well sure, my questions is why is the Union charging over double what seems to be 90th quartile for electricians in small to mid sized MSAs and only a bit more than the 90th quartile on high COL cities.

I suspect the electrician they send over isn’t just pocketing $100/h on wages.

Re: The hit film about overworked nurses that's causing alarm across Europe

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Genuine question: Why? Because.. that’s what the union charges my employer per hour for an electrician? I don’t have a choice lol Cincinnati is a rust belt city with depressed wages (no offense to anyone that lives there, but it’s the truth), my market is higher income (Minneapolis/St Paul) where a journeyworker makes $57/hr on the check instead of $38/hr like in Ohio, which is 1.5x (!!) higher.

Well sure, my questions is why is the Union charging over double what seems to be 90th quartile for electricians in small to mid sized MSAs and only a bit more than the 90th quartile on high COL cities. I suspect the electrician they send over isn’t just pocketing $100/h on wages.

> Well sure, my questions is why is the Union charging over double what seems to be 90th quartile for electricians in small to mid sized MSAs and only a bit more than the 90th quartile on high COL cities.

The union is charging that because *that is what’s in the contract that was signed by the union and the local union contractors after negotiation. Electricians get paid a lot where I live because it’s a wealthy growing area that people want to live in, and not a dying rust belt city.

> I suspect the electrician they send over isn’t just pocketing $100/h on wages.

Did you read the post I wrote initially?

I give the breakdown of how much of the money I pay to the union goes to the worker on his paycheck (55%) with the rest going to insurance, taxes, union dues, pension, etc (fringe benefits, which are 45%)

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