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Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

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Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#131

Post by vicnov »

ghurtado wrote: post #99
puppycodes wrote: post #10

Interesting, I wonder what else this might lead too! Encouraging we might be getting somewhere. I used to live near a Down syndrome center where a bunch of folks lived and I remember this one lady who was kitted out with Britney Spears everything, lunchbox, t-shirt, hat, and headphones. Everyday I passed by the bus stop she would be dancing her heart out to a Britney track waiting for the bus and it made my world a l…

See, it's stories like this one that make me really question just how ethical it is to completely eliminate Down's from the gene pool. I understand it's the correct medical and scientific thing to do, it's just that it sometimes feels a little bit like eugenics for me.

> just how ethical it is to completely eliminate Down's from the gene pool

wait.. what?

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#132

Post by OJFord »

creakingstairs wrote: post #56
mathgeek wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyday I passed by the bus stop she would be dancing her heart out to a Britney track waiting for the bus and it made my world a little brighter. As someone who absolutely loves to "be weird", I often wish the world was so much friendlier to folks like this (other than in a token manner).

Is it just me or do I feel like the society is way more accepting nowadays? I had to pretty much hide who I was during school due to fear of bullying/ not fitting in but most kids these days seem to be able to be themselves in many ways. I agree we can be friendlier though!

It's just fashion I think - for the last 10-15 years the idea of being a nerd who works for Google or whatever has been relatively cool.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#133

Post by smeej »

devonbleak wrote: post #72
afavour wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly it’s confounding to even think about it. Aborting a fetus with Down’s syndrome? Feels cruel to deprive someone of life for that. But if it meant you went on to have another child you otherwise wouldn’t have then you’re giving life. I think at a certain point you can’t consider this stuff rationally.

I have a cousin with DS. You have to be committed and have the means to raise a child with extreme needs. Many of them will live with their parents their entire lives and will not develop cognitively beyond their tweens (hence the Britney Spears anecdote above). The ones that do move out tend to have to go to a place that specializes in assisting them. They can also have pretty extreme health issues. Yes, they can be…

As the percentage of adults of ordinary abilities who fail to launch continues to rise, I wonder if we'll stop seeing this as a deficit specific to DS and other intellectual disabilities.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#134

Post by vtbassmatt »

LargeWu wrote: post #106
lotyrin wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those sound like capitalism problems, not medical ones, to be probably too honest (HN doesn't generally vibe with class consciousness because so many tech bros sell out or dream of selling out one day, but). Society can afford to have support systems for people with disabilities and their supportive family, as evidenced by the fact that it is currently doing so indirectly (by paying enough for the husband's labor tha…

Forget the economic aspect of it, what about the emotional and mental cost something like Downs Syndrome imparts, for both parents? I can't imagine any parent hoping they will have a child that will be utterly dependent on them for their entire lives. It's not at all to say they do not love their children as they are, but nobody seeks to become a parent hoping their child will have severe developmental disabilities.…

Why do you think that people with Down syndrome are “utterly dependent on [their parents] for their entire lives”? All children come with a severe “emotional and mental cost”, have you seen the world today??

We knew with (well beyond) reasonable certainty that our son would have Down syndrome and chose to continue the pregnancy. We’re not religious and not part of any pro-birth political cohort; it was absolutely an affirmative choice.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#135

Post by smeej »

nkrisc wrote: post #68
afavour wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly it’s confounding to even think about it. Aborting a fetus with Down’s syndrome? Feels cruel to deprive someone of life for that. But if it meant you went on to have another child you otherwise wouldn’t have then you’re giving life. I think at a certain point you can’t consider this stuff rationally.

At some point you have to choose an arbitrary line in the sand, or otherwise the universe is a single being. All lines are arbitrary.

The line between "haploid gametes" and "diploid organism" doesn't seem arbitrary. There's a clear and meaningful difference between a gamete and an organism from a biological perspective.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#136

Post by llmthrow103 »

smeej wrote: post #127
llmthrow103 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dating apps and services with a beauty/salary standard and long prison sentences for the worst criminals are also a form of eugenics. Many kinds of societal and political changes have a eugenic or dysgenic effect on the population, and I'd prefer to live in a society that has more eugenic policies.

People in privileged or powerful positions often would.

People have an aversion to the word "eugenics" because it's often connected to atrocity propaganda from World War II.

I'm not suggesting that every country should have genetic purity tests and policies on the level of Israel, just that we should understand that policies affect what kinds of people are more likely to be produced.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#137

Post by smeej »

mathgeek wrote: post #32
barbazoo wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is “normal development”? And doesn’t that describe the process, not the outcome? If the outcome is happiness, who knows who has it better?!

While "what is normal" is a reasonable question, a normal development is certainly closer to something that allows folks to achieve most things in any career/hobby/pursuit they choose.

Do you really see that as a "norm" being met by a majority of the population today? I don't think most people's lived experience is anything like that.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#138

Post by lurk2 »

typewithrhythm wrote: post #115
ghurtado wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, it's stories like this one that make me really question just how ethical it is to completely eliminate Down's from the gene pool. I understand it's the correct medical and scientific thing to do, it's just that it sometimes feels a little bit like eugenics for me.

Seeing a minute fraction of their existence is a rubbish way to make a judgement. Most of they bring to the world is random rage, unspeakable fluids, and unpleasant interactions. But I guess driving past safari style is fine.

Do you live or regularly interact with someone who has Down Syndrome, or have any kind of data that would support the idea that people with Down Syndrome are exceptionally violent?

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#139

Post by lurk2 »

smeej wrote: post #122
typewithrhythm wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing a minute fraction of their existence is a rubbish way to make a judgement. Most of they bring to the world is random rage, unspeakable fluids, and unpleasant interactions. But I guess driving past safari style is fine.

What? Are you talking about real, live people with Down Syndrome? Surveys have consistently shown that they and those who live with them (which is no safari) are happier than everyone else. That wouldn't make much sense if "most" of what they bring to the world is "unpleasant interactions."

> Surveys have consistently shown that they and those who live with them (which is no safari) are happier than everyone else.

Can you point to any that you have read?

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#140

Post by ksenzee »

vtbassmatt wrote: post #123
shadowgovt wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, since Down's is caused by (we're pretty sure) mitotic error, it can't be completely eliminated from the gene pool. 99% of cases did not occur on hereditary lines. With or without the existence of the treatment, Down's cases would continue to surface. So it's in the category of "treatments parents could choose to apply to their offspring," and generally parents get pretty broad leeway there in choice of the kind…

As the parent of a child with Down syndrome, I really appreciate the way you and the parent comment approached this topic. Thank you. Tiny nit, in the US it’s “Down syndrome”, not “Down’s”. Apparently we name conditions with a possessive if named for someone with it (“Lou Gehrig’s”) and without the possessive if named for, say, the person who first described the condition in a medical journal.

I never knew why the possessive wasn't used, thank you!
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