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Giving Up on Element and Matrix.org

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Re: Giving Up on Element and Matrix.org

#131

Post by ezst »

Arathorn wrote: post #122
ezst wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's depressing to be told that we can pick between a moribund client and one that's barely usable, indeed. Element X is a mess. You can make it look good in comparison to the previous one on a "checkbox" basis like you just did, but it's clunky, buggy, and so unappealing that I don't see myself recommending it to anyone. Even tech nerds can't stand it any longer, which was the premise of this post. Yup, I get it, yo…

are we even talking about the same app? This is literally the first time i’ve heard someone accuse Element X of being clunky, buggy or unappealing - including the original post? The criticism is that it’s not got threads/spaces, surely.

> This is literally the first time i’ve heard someone accuse Element X of being clunky, buggy or unappealing

I mean, picked from the top of THIS comments section

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44627333

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44617565

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44617604

(the linked article being a fourth)

Re: Giving Up on Element and Matrix.org

#132

Post by Arathorn »

floren wrote: post #127
Arathorn wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure where the "devs will claim it's my fault if i ask for help" trope is coming from - we really do want Matrix to work :( Do you have a bug report of where this is happening, on what set of clients? A bunch of people have been reporting images not loading, but I haven't seen anything actionable. Is it possible that this is anti-image-spam protection kicking in?

> Is it possible that this is anti-image-spam protection kicking in? Man I can't see where the trope of developers implying it's the user's fault is coming from

…anti-image-spam protection happens serverside, configured by the room admin. it’s nothing to do with the user’s fault.

i’m trying to help fix your problem. can you point me at details so I can investigate?

Re: Giving Up on Element and Matrix.org

#133

Post by Arathorn »

ezst wrote: post #131
Arathorn wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are we even talking about the same app? This is literally the first time i’ve heard someone accuse Element X of being clunky, buggy or unappealing - including the original post? The criticism is that it’s not got threads/spaces, surely.

> This is literally the first time i’ve heard someone accuse Element X of being clunky, buggy or unappealing I mean, picked from the top of THIS comments section - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44627333 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44617565 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44617604 (the linked article being a fourth)

right, so you are talking about the old legacy Element client, which all those links and the OP are complaining about being clunky/buggy/unappealing.

Not the Element X rewrite, which everyone seems to agree is better… but just not feature complete yet. Thanks for clarifying :)

Re: Giving Up on Element and Matrix.org

#134

Post by nadir_ishiguro »

Arathorn wrote: post #95

Speaking as project lead for Matrix, I obviously feel pretty gutted when someone gives up like this. Doubly so when the straw that broke their back wasn't even a Matrix problem, but really gnarly postgres corruption (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44618702 ). Firstly, I'm sorry they had such a bad time, and as per https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44621077 there's a tonne of things we've (i've) done wron…

Love Matrix/Element and how you deal with criticism.

I've heard (and tried) the new experimental webapp. Is that actually something more than an experiment and will this see further development?

I'm asking because I really enjoyed it but felt like it might have been just a test balloon.

Re: Giving Up on Element and Matrix.org

#135

Post by floren »

Arathorn wrote: post #132
floren wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is it possible that this is anti-image-spam protection kicking in? Man I can't see where the trope of developers implying it's the user's fault is coming from

…anti-image-spam protection happens serverside, configured by the room admin. it’s nothing to do with the user’s fault. i’m trying to help fix your problem. can you point me at details so I can investigate?

Who's the room admin for a private chat between myself and a single other user?

Re: Giving Up on Element and Matrix.org

#136

Post by tcfhgj »

xorcist wrote: post #21
ranger_danger wrote: post #3

the amount of spec change proposals over the years is wild: https://0x0.st/H8h-.png

Remember that their main criticism of XMPP was there is just too many protocols extensions and proposals! Turns out that maybe it was for good reasons.

never heard of that

Re: Giving Up on Element and Matrix.org

#137

Post by kniffy »

ezst wrote: post #118
kniffy wrote: post #62

I want to like matrix, but I had to give up my homeserver. For reasons that are unclear to me I was added to the matrix.org homeserver blacklist, with no communication on why or response to my asking why. Eventually I noticed some issue with the database, it having grown many hundreds of GB (something about my users being stuck in matrix.org rooms that they're blacklisted from, I guess) so I rm -rf'd it and that's th…

Could it be that your needs would be covered by XMPP? You can run that on a RPi in a shoebox.

Probably, yeah, though I'm not familiar with the ecosystem yet. It seems like ejabberd is written in erlang, which is promising.

Re: Giving Up on Element and Matrix.org

#138

Post by kuschku »

arresin wrote: post #17
Takennickname wrote: post #8

I said most of the same things in the Matrix foundation's server. The general response from the team was: "Pay money or shut up and accept what we give you". The number of gigantic changes in direction this project has had in the past couple of years is enough to sink any project. Jitsi to Webrtc, complete change in auth system, Element to Element X. There's two clients. One that's fast, and one that's full featured.…

I guess it’s an old story. You can’t have pure tech guys guiding the ship.

The "tech guys", as you call them, are dogfooding the app and feeling the pain every day. Matthew — the CEO — is the biggest poweruser of them all and feels all the pain points, with his account being the worst-case edge case.

It's just that most of the money comes from consulting, and consulting customers care about new features, not performance or UX.

Which is btw not just a problem for Element — the other companies working on Matrix have the same issues, for the same reasons.

Discord can afford this level of UI polish because they're spending an order of magnitude more on dev salaries than the entire revenue of all companies working on matrix combined.

Re: Giving Up on Element and Matrix.org

#139

Post by kuschku »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #52

To add to the pile: - The web client doesn't load any images/media anymore for me in new sessions. I log in, I cross authenticate with another client, no images load. At work I've a very old browser session going and everything works. - We host synapse at work to explore feasibility. Been going on for about 9 months now. Public profile lookup is disabled. This breaks inviting anyone from our company from another serv…

> The web client doesn't load any images/media anymore for me in new sessions. I log in, I cross authenticate with another client, no images load. At work I've a very old browser session going and everything works.

That sounds like something with authenticated media has gone really wrong.

Do the fetch requests for the media fail, or does it not even attempt to make the requests? Is there an error message in the logs?

Regarding the invite issue, could you please clarify in which versions of element (web/desktop, android, iOS, elementX) you've seen the issue, and in which dialogs (search for user, create new room, invite users to existing room)?

Re: Giving Up on Element and Matrix.org

#140

Post by AAAAaccountAAAA »

hammyhavoc wrote: post #123
AAAAaccountAAAA wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, it seems you are here to just troll and insult everyone. Matrix by calling it just a some sort of volunteer project run by nerds in basements, and those too, who are not pleased with it's problems. What exactly does have a "call for volunteers" to haul around stuff in a some sort of conference has to do with anything? What has Nextcloud to do with this? You'd have known that Matrix ecosystem has lots of paid prof…

Nowhere did I say "a few pull requests". I said "pull requests welcome". Every accusation is a confession—you are the troll. If you are insulted then that is on you. Name these paid professionals.

https://uk.linkedin.com/company/matrix-org

https://uk.linkedin.com/company/element-hq?trk=similar-pages

etc.

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