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More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

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Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#131

Post by JimDabell »

codedokode wrote: post #124
JimDabell wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And because it has positioned itself as the single most prominent privacy-conscious champion in big tech through repeated actions over the course of many years. I just want to highlight this because Hacker News can be incredibly dismissive about this. Apple’s focus on privacy is a competitive advantage. Consumers value it, and Apple’s competitors have business models that undermine it. Even if you think Tim Cook is…

So if Apple really cares about privacy, their products send less telemetry than my Linux system, correct?

> So if Apple really cares about privacy

This is a complete misunderstanding of what I was saying. I wasn’t arguing that Apple “really cares” about privacy; quite the opposite – I was arguing that it doesn’t matter if Apple “really cares”, what matters is that they are financially and strategically incentivised to be pro-privacy.

Linux is not Apple’s competitor. Apple only have to be better at privacy than their competitors.

Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#132

Post by aspenmayer »

croes wrote: post #116
jwr wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jobs was no angel, but he did follow "build great things and profits will come" philosophy. Apple these days is run for profit: profits are clearly first, and good things might accidentally come as well as a side effect. That would be ok, because competition, except these days the moat is huge: it is very difficult for a new entrant to compete.

You‘re holding it wrong

I had a 3rd party band-aid sticker on the iPhone 4 I waited in line to buy at the flagship Apple Store in San Francisco. I remember Square handing out aux-input cardreaders for free to me and other line-con attendees pre-purchase. This was jailbreakme times. Cydia pre-exists the Apple App Store on iOS, in case anyone was unaware. Cydia and the wider jb scene used to keep Apple honeset, as Cydia is the original App Store. How the mighty have fallen.

Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#134

Post by foooorsyth »

aqme28 wrote: post #130
em500 wrote: post #129

Apple Wallet is in the App store, and the F1 ad debacle directly violates App Store guidelines https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ ) > 4.5.4 Push Notifications must not be required for the app to function, and should not be used to send sensitive personal or confidential information. Push Notifications should not be used for promotions or direct marketing purposes unless customers have explicitly…

Interesting. I feel like this clause is violated very often by major apps: > Push Notifications should not be used for promotions or direct marketing purposes unless customers have explicitly opted in to receive them via consent language displayed in your app’s UI, and you provide a method in your app for a user to opt out from receiving such messages.

I’ve said several times before that notifications should be reportable as spam directly to Google/Apple, just like email spam reporting.

Google tried to tackle this with notification channels, but the onus falls on the developer to actually use them honestly. No company trying to draw attention back to their app with advertisement notifications will willingly name a notification channel “advertisements” or “user re-engagement” or similar — they’ll just interleave spam with all the non-spam. This API from G hasn’t worked.

Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#135

Post by holowoodman »

codedokode wrote: post #124
JimDabell wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And because it has positioned itself as the single most prominent privacy-conscious champion in big tech through repeated actions over the course of many years. I just want to highlight this because Hacker News can be incredibly dismissive about this. Apple’s focus on privacy is a competitive advantage. Consumers value it, and Apple’s competitors have business models that undermine it. Even if you think Tim Cook is…

So if Apple really cares about privacy, their products send less telemetry than my Linux system, correct?

[flagged]

Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#136

Post by rpdillon »

JimDabell wrote: post #54
drysart wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Apple makes its money by selling you hardware and services, not by selling advertising. Companies ultimately serve whoever they make their money from; and none of the other big tech players have a comprehensive business model where the end user is the customer instead of the product. And because it has positioned itself as the single most prominent privacy-conscious champion in big tech through repeated actio…

> And because it has positioned itself as the single most prominent privacy-conscious champion in big tech through repeated actions over the course of many years. I just want to highlight this because Hacker News can be incredibly dismissive about this. Apple’s focus on privacy is a competitive advantage. Consumers value it, and Apple’s competitors have business models that undermine it. Even if you think Tim Cook is…

I disagree with you. I think the majority of Apple's promises are purely marketing. And this is a moment where the mask has slipped. Your account does not allow for the case where Apple can successfully convince their users that they are privacy-oriented while simultaneously not being privacy oriented.

A great example of this is that they say that iMessage is end-to-end encrypted, and then the second you have an iCloud backup that's completely broken. An actual privacy-centric product, this would be a major problem. Consider Signal.

Apple is also the company that tried to introduce client-side content scanning of user photos.

There is no giant moat between Apple and privacy violation. They'll do it whenever they feel like it, and Apple customers are very forgiving.

Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#137

Post by seszett »

rafaelmn wrote: post #6
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #2

I feel vindicated for when I said that the moment Apple's line stops growing, they'll resort to monetizing their users like the rest of big-tech to increase their shareholder returns, and everyone here was like "Nooo, my sweet innocent publicly traded trillion dollar corporation would never betray me like that" . Give it a few more years love, now they're boiling the frog.

What do you mean start monetizing ? I get adds for their Apple Arcade trial on top of my iOS settings main screen. I really hate Apple - but what's stopping me from moving out of the ecosystem is that nobody else builds shit that works and is on same level. The M Pro series processor is only touchable by that one AMD chip you can't get anywhere. Windows is garbage and Linux is a part time job. Android is even worse i…

I don't really understand, I don't get ads on my Android phone?

And I'm not sure what you mean about ecosystems either, yes you do need a Google account to download apps from the Play store, but you also need an Apple account to use the Apple store as far as I know.

In my experience it's easier to create a second Google account than a second Apple account.

Now I'm not representative of most users, like all HN users probably. But at home, apart from my M1 Mac (running Linux because I hate macOS) my other machines are Intel n100-based. They work fine.

Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#138

Post by rpdillon »

codedokode wrote: post #124
JimDabell wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And because it has positioned itself as the single most prominent privacy-conscious champion in big tech through repeated actions over the course of many years. I just want to highlight this because Hacker News can be incredibly dismissive about this. Apple’s focus on privacy is a competitive advantage. Consumers value it, and Apple’s competitors have business models that undermine it. Even if you think Tim Cook is…

So if Apple really cares about privacy, their products send less telemetry than my Linux system, correct?

I agree with this point as well. I had the privilege of talking to a telemetry ingestion engineer at Apple, and I learned quite a bit about the amount of data they collect on their users. It's absolutely staggering.

Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#139

Post by holowoodman »

Veen wrote: post #83
bambax wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> lack of openness Lack of openness means lack of privacy. If we can't install apps on the side that have proper adblock filtering, then all the promises in the world are hollow.

Lack of openness means a lack of privacy in theory, but in practice, openness often results in less privacy. The average user lacks the knowledge, time, and motivation to install and configure open systems to maximize privacy. They're likely to make mistakes that expose private data. A closed system that prioritizes privacy will result in more users benefiting from greater privacy overall, even if it does give the pl…

A non-open system is not verifyable and therefore not trustable. Therefore a non-open system can never deliver privacy. At best it can attempt to trick you into believing it does.

Re: More on Apple's Trust-Eroding 'F1 the Movie' Wallet Ad

#140

Post by exe34 »

hshshshshsh wrote: post #92
dijit wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“How do you know that had impact”. Do you hear yourself?

Then all OP is saying key impact person had key impact. Doesn't add any substance to discussion.

Neither did your second sentence, and you still wrote it. Sometimes we write things down to draw attention to the fact, not to inform a naive audience of facts that they did not know.
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