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Microsoft Dependency Has Risks

blog.miloslavhomer.cz

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Re: Microsoft Dependency Has Risks

#131

Post by dagw »

ruszki wrote: post #111
privatelypublic wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand- game engines are complex beasts and visual studio and/or .Net (in any of its incarnations) have the best debugging workflow I've seen. Typescript is also Microsoft. So is ONNX.

What makes it better than say IntelliJ? Is there some feature which helps you more with debugging?

It's been a few years since I've used Visual Studio, but for longest time its support for debugging multithreaded and GPU code was unmatched. This is one of the main reasons game developers loved VS. It also had good support for mixed language debugging which is very useful when your C# code calls a C++ library for example.

Re: Microsoft Dependency Has Risks

#132

Post by herbst »

mrweasel wrote: post #110
iimblack wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you separate the good from the bad? What do you do when Microsoft changes the good things into bad things? My take is that Microsoft consistently makes bad things and makes "good" things into "bad" things; so, I don't have much expectation or faith that anything that I currently think is "good" will stay that way.

> How do you separate the good from the bad? Developer tools and enterprise stuff good (mostly). Consumer products bad.

For whom? Microsoft?

I don't know which of their developer tools I would consider good. Or less worse than the competition

Re: Microsoft Dependency Has Risks

#133

Post by windward »

msgodel wrote: post #125
bob1029 wrote: post #18

The trick with Microsoft is to very carefully separate the good parts from the bad ones. Labeling all of Microsoft as banned is really constraining your technology options. This is a gigantic organization with a very diverse set of people in it. There aren't many things like .NET, MSSQL and Visual Studio out there. The debugger experience in VS is the holy grail if you have super nasty real world technology situation…

If you're not doing C++ gdb is pretty good, most people just don't know how to use it.

Maybe it's baby duck syndrome, but I've gone out of my way to use gdb over VS's debugger. A simple .gdbinit has more expressive scripting power than a GUI can ever allow.

Re: Microsoft Dependency Has Risks

#135

Post by herbst »

cyberax wrote: post #34
jiggawatts wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To paint a picture: I’ve worked with Microsoft technologies almost exclusively for decades but recently I was forced to pick up some Node.js, Docker, and Linux tooling for a specific app. I can’t express in words what a giant step backwards it is from ASP.NET and Visual Studio. It’s like bashing things with open source rocks after working in a rocket manufacturing facility festooned with Kuka robots. It’s just… end-t…

I tried developing an MS .NET app and it's indescribably bad. The deployment story is non-existent, monitoring, tracing, alarming is barely there. You have to work with MS libraries that are on life-support with glaring bugs still present.

I feel you. Having done sane programming before I tried it all the .NET stuff didn't feel right. Like they made Java even more ugly and brought nothing new to the table that works outside of their weird ecosystem. (At least that was the state 10-15 years ago, coding .NET on/for Linux)

Re: Microsoft Dependency Has Risks

#136

Post by [deleted] »

gerdesj wrote: post #37
privatelypublic wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand- game engines are complex beasts and visual studio and/or .Net (in any of its incarnations) have the best debugging workflow I've seen. Typescript is also Microsoft. So is ONNX.

"I think you misunderstand- game engines are complex beasts and visual studio and/or .Net (in any of its incarnations) have the best debugging workflow I've seen." I think you misunderstand: the market, ie the number of people who actually care about developing game engines, is tiny. How many games developers do you know as a subset of the people you know of? OP only managed to find a niche product area for MS to shi…

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft Dependency Has Risks

#137

Post by herbst »

esperent wrote: post #126
ArcHound wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's cheap and it works well. Also integrates into everything related you'd need.

Also, if you're a small business without a dedicated tech team, what are your options that don't involve relying on a single big company? Speaking for myself, running a bakery, I chose MS 365/Teams with regret but accepting that there's nothing else out there with the same value proposition except maybe Google workspace. They have regional pricing so we get everything for the equivalent of $3.50 per user. Basically n…

I am not sure if a company that doesn't need a technical team even needs that technical overhead?

No reason to not just host email with any domain provider and manage the rest with a small NAS in the office.

Not only cheaper and taking away the update obligations of Microsoft. Which I am sure kills more productivity than managing a Synology server.

Re: Microsoft Dependency Has Risks

#138

Post by jiggawatts »

m_st wrote: post #103
jiggawatts wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To paint a picture: I’ve worked with Microsoft technologies almost exclusively for decades but recently I was forced to pick up some Node.js, Docker, and Linux tooling for a specific app. I can’t express in words what a giant step backwards it is from ASP.NET and Visual Studio. It’s like bashing things with open source rocks after working in a rocket manufacturing facility festooned with Kuka robots. It’s just… end-t…

Thanks for writing this. I couldn't agree any more. We've worked with .NET for decades and it really just works or lets you debug easily. Then we've started working on projects with Angular, React and Docker and it's just a nightmare to get a stable version.

There was a study comparing the “half life” of code in different codebases as a measure of “churn”. Linux unsurprisingly is pretty stable. Meanwhile Angular is the worst with code lasting just months before it’s rewritten. Then again months later. And again. And again.

This is why it has so many breaking changes.

Re: Microsoft Dependency Has Risks

#140

Post by herbst »

Spivak wrote: post #46
hilbert42 wrote: post #41

I still find it hard to believe that so many people and companies are prepared to use Microsoft's online/cloud services. Not ony is this a single point of failure but it's one they've no control over whatsoever. Same goes for Google/Youtube etc. It's as risky as flying a passenger jet with only one engine. What are they thinking, why are they prepared to risk everything? It boggles my mind.

Do you consider the same single point of failure to use AWS? There's a pretty significant lower bound of size to where you can reasonably have multiple points of failure. And like oh well if you use this stack you could theoretically move at any time isn't really the same thing as being multi-homed. I've been at places where this has been a concern of the leadership but the economics of it have never really worked ou…

If it's locked within AWS and you have no way of moving out fast I definitely would consider it a single point of failure.
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