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Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

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Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#131

Post by underlipton »

biophysboy wrote: post #99
senkora wrote: post #5

Scott Alexander also recently had a take on Curtis Yarvin’s recent actions: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/moldbug-sold-out The gist of it is that he had interesting ideas on political systems in the past, but that his current ideas are nonsense, and in fact his old work explains exactly why his new work is nonsense.

A sci-fi variant of autocracy is not an interesting idea though. Why is a CEO king and a royal board of directors interesting? Its not even novel: his proposal is identical to that laid out by the "technocracy" movement a century ago.

Tangential: I'm reminded of the sadly stillborn Final Fantasy Versus XIII, and its apparent ambition to present a "modern" monarchy, styled visually with elements of both contemporary business and the mafia. You're right, there's nothing inherently noble or benevolent in autocracy; the king brought forward to the present isn't a statesman or innovator, he's a robber baron or a crime boss. I kind of lament that that sort of explicit idea didn't enter the cultural discourse.

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#132

Post by tannschnauzer »

jobs_throwaway wrote: post #46
MomsAVoxell wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially that whole ‘listening to reason’ thing .. Well. I dunno, actually. In some ways, I do want The Feed. But in other ways, I definitely don’t want Drummers. Okay, some aspects of Drummers.

The Feed would be cool, the Primer would be fantastic, and a lot of the voluntary societies would be awesome. Diamond age is the most compelling vision for the future of recent popular sci-fi that I've found

The Diamond Age is yet another terrible future that many readers take as awesome, for reasons I can never figure out.

The Primer that everyone likes is mostly just a human remote-teaching—certainly, the best parts of its outcomes are from that. One specific person caring very much and dedicating lots of time and focus to teaching this kid.

Meanwhile, the mass-production Primer without that aspect is just a brainwashing device.

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#134

Post by UncleMeat »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #44
sitkack wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He's foppish and playful more than he is scary. This is a very unwise stance to take. Peter Thiel has teamed up with the Heritage Foundation to implement this plan. This is why A16Z and Musk put Trump in power, it is precisely to implement this plan.

Musk is on the outs. And what if there is no grand conspiracy? We're extremely far from any of Yarvin's "plans" at any rate. Yarvin's most cherished plan was to create a shadow university called the "Antiversity" -- a sort of repository of all truths unbeholden to politics and fads. Is this a bad idea? Which other Yarvin ideas scare you so?

Today I found out that a friend of mine had their tenure case rejected because of their participation in a peaceful protest by a board of visitors staffed with GOP appointees.

The rising fascist movement is anything but supporting a “repository of truths in beholden to politics and fads.”

The reality matters. Simply saying “oh I’m good” while Yarvin smashes people under his feet is garbage.

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#135

Post by abathologist »

eikenberry wrote: post #110

Didn't have time to make it through the entire (long winded) article, but is it wrong to boil down his thinking to the simple idea that a benevolent, competent dictator is the best form of government? I ask as this seems like a very simplistic and obvious idea. The problem isn't that this is necessarily incorrect, it is how do you find this mythical figurehead? History has shown that we have never discovered a system…

Yeah, he is also committed to race science, the belief that diversity is fundamentally bad, and that states "own" their citizens, and can do anything they want to them. None of that is just the basic idea of a benevolent dictator. Yarvin's views are repugnant and evil as well as reductive, childish, and unoriginal.

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#136

Post by soulofmischief »

cassepipe wrote: post #66
soulofmischief wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China's population is purportedly set to halve by 2100. They're well on their way to a massive population shock if they don't thread the needle carefully. There's also been lots of stories about bank closures and Chinese citizens losing their money. Additionally, China, like the US and many other world powers, is a totalitarian authoritarian government which is hostile towards its people. Whether China has high-speed…

They have invested a lot into their energy sources whether it's nuclear or renewables + batteries or hydro. They also have industrial capacity. I feel like we tend to forget that the brunt of the economic output is made by machines which feed on energy. When you have virtually free energy and sufficient level of machinery, you can do anything.

Personally, I directly use energy, both current and future (access to resources) as the main currency of my economic model of the world, not money. So I do understand that China is well-equipped to weather the storm on multiple fronts.

But that's orthogonal to the fact that they will experience major population shock that radically and painfully transforms their economy, and also to the fact that China is a totalitarian nightmare with strict moderation of culture, knowledge and financial mobility.

Who cares if the country still exists in name, if the number of people who manage to maintain a quality of life comparable today's average continues to dwindle?

And what happens if China faces civil unrest and balkanizes, due to backlash against its increasingly authoritarian regime?

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#137

Post by hollerith »

runako wrote: post #25
A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #18

I mentioned this previously, but I frequently think back to Gibson's "Jackpot" -- a cross-lashed, polycausal catastrophe: Lots of bad little things accumulating, building up a certain momentum. I think that even as far back as 2009, an astute observer would have noticed that society is beginning to burn through its seed corn. In some places, things are now getting extremely acute: https://www.neilobrien.co.uk/p/the-c…

> society is beginning to burn through its seed corn This is mostly true in the US, where a defining characteristic of the population is a belief that we cannot do better or have more, that things will always continue to get worse, and that everyone is out to take advantage of you all the time. Other countries continue to invest in the future. China, among others, do not suffer the current American fatalism.

>This is mostly true in the US, where a defining characteristic of the population is a belief that we cannot do better or have more, that things will always continue to get worse

My view is basically the complete opposite: IMHO Americans have experienced things getting gradually better for essentially the entire duration of the American nation, with the result that we don't have the institutional capability to respond effectively when growth stops or when (as in the case of climate change) growth becomes the problem that must be addressed.

Western Europe has proven much better at running their societies in ways that do not depend on continued growth than the US has (at least in the period after WW II) which is why it has responded much quicker and more effectively to the challenge of climate change than the US has.

Here is one man's summary of this dynamic: https://theportal.wiki/wiki/Embedded_Growth_Obligations

Oh, wait: could it be that you are disappointed with the US (and see China in a favorable light) because the US isn't becoming Leftist quickly enough?

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#139

Post by MrZongle2 »

eikenberry wrote: post #110

Didn't have time to make it through the entire (long winded) article, but is it wrong to boil down his thinking to the simple idea that a benevolent, competent dictator is the best form of government? I ask as this seems like a very simplistic and obvious idea. The problem isn't that this is necessarily incorrect, it is how do you find this mythical figurehead? History has shown that we have never discovered a system…

benevolent, competent dictator

Choose one.

Re: Curtis Yarvin's Plot Against America

#140

Post by kiitos »

ToValueFunfetti wrote: post #106
quickthrowman wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fascist technocracy is not interesting in the slightest. It’s what basement dwelling teens who idolize John Galt dream about before they are exposed to the complexity of the real world.

Understatement of the millenium, but Yarvin has written a lot more than "let's do fascist technocracy!" I find his writing style wastes a lot of one's time and I disagree with him on nearly everything, but there's no denying that there are many interesting ideas in there.

I absolutely deny that there are any interesting ideas in there.

We've done this, it was called the dark ages and it sucked and we moved past it. Engaging with this pablum in any way is granting it attention and vigor it obviously doesn't deserve.

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