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Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

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Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#131

Post by dpark »

andrewfelix wrote: post #114
brc wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's really no such thing as 'Aussie' coffee, as I doubt coffee is produced in commercial quantities anywhere in Australia, although there are local roasters. What they are referring to is coffee made by an Australia barista. Basically, coffee culture is huge in Australia, and being a quality barista is seen as a cool kind of job to have, despite the generally low pay. It's not unusual on a city street in Australi…

>There's really no such thing as 'Aussie' coffee Demonstrably untrue. Like most coffee producers, a lot of the beans are imported, some of it is grown locally. But they are hand selected, blended and roasted here in Australia and are most definitely produced in commercial quantities to be consumed here and exported as far as Korea. To name but a few Campos, Sprocket, Lavazza. Australia has very rich Italian and Europ…

I recognized Lavazza, so I had to look it up. It's apparently an Italian company, with production in Italy, and seven subsidiaries in other countries (notably not Australia). Probably not the best choice to promote Aussie coffee. The others do seem to be Australian.

By the way, does Australia count as a western nation? It seems to be in the wrong location for that. This is totally tangential to the coffee topic, just something that I found curious.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#132

Post by dpark »

crazygringo wrote: post #116
alexanderh wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say review systems and internet research negates most of the 'gamble' involved with most app purchases. But I guess most users are just mindless consumer zombies. There are a few instances where you "wont know till ya try it yourself"... but they're few and far between with proper research. I think it really speaks to the expectation of developers here that users are expected to "gamble" on app purchases with…

> I would say review systems and internet research negates most of the 'gamble' involved with most app purchases. Logically, it seems like it should. But a lot of apps are just good fits for some people and bad fits for others. Some people love Angry Birds, and some people hate it. For a lot of apps, it doesn't matter how many reviews you read -- you just can't tell if you'll like it or not. I bought the $0.99 Tetris…

> I bought the $0.99 Tetris app because it was getting rave reviews. And after just a few minutes, I realized I hated it.

And you only have to experience this once to "double-negate" the gamble. One time is enough to make a user realize that it's still a craps shoot. Reviews online are often a very weak signal for quality.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#133

Post by petitmiam »

mirsadm wrote: post #78
andrewfelix wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was talking about Starbucks not Australian coffee.

Ah makes sense. Starbucks is pretty terrible and I never really understood why you would go there (especially in Melbourne).

which is why, thankfully there are hardly any Starbucks left.

Although I noticed one has just opened up on Elizabeth St. I guess they still attract tourists looking for something they know?

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#134

Post by brc »

andrewfelix wrote: post #114
brc wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's really no such thing as 'Aussie' coffee, as I doubt coffee is produced in commercial quantities anywhere in Australia, although there are local roasters. What they are referring to is coffee made by an Australia barista. Basically, coffee culture is huge in Australia, and being a quality barista is seen as a cool kind of job to have, despite the generally low pay. It's not unusual on a city street in Australi…

>There's really no such thing as 'Aussie' coffee Demonstrably untrue. Like most coffee producers, a lot of the beans are imported, some of it is grown locally. But they are hand selected, blended and roasted here in Australia and are most definitely produced in commercial quantities to be consumed here and exported as far as Korea. To name but a few Campos, Sprocket, Lavazza. Australia has very rich Italian and Europ…

@andrewfelix - you're right in that there are specific roasters, but I'm unsure about where they get their beans.

I guess I took 'Aussie' coffee to be places that marketed themselves as 'Australian', or internationally recognised Australian coffee brands. While everyone can find a bottle of Australian wine, and what it means to be Australian wine, defining it for coffee is a difficult task.

dpark, 'Western' is more of a cultural moniker than a geographical moniker.

If you want to get specific about it, all of Europe west of Greenwich is not 'Western' - and that's most of it. Tunisia is definitely Western Hemisphere but you wouldn't call it west.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#135

Post by xiaoma »

tptacek wrote: post #110
xiaoma wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, if people all made such rational comparisons about marginal utility, not many people would be paying $100/month for TV channels that only allow them to watch certain shows at certain times and are full of interruption based advertising and not many people would be flushing $15 down the drain to go see a 90 minute movie instead of buying a month's membership to World of Warcraft and getting tens or…

I very much think that's the wrong lesson to learn from people's willingness to fork over $100/mo for pay TV. It is not an iron law that people will not pay $8 for apps because less than $8 is what apps cost, and $8 is what beer costs, and $100 is what pay TV costs. It is a law, I believe called "gravity", that products that present themselves as market substitutes for other products that cost $1 will have a hard tim…

Then the logic question as far as the OP's original topic is this:

Can any app truly be a substitute good for a sweetened beverage with stimulants in it? I would say no. It doesn't matter how much people are willing to spend at Starbucks. It has virtually no bearing on how they'll value your app.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#136

Post by graue »

mmahemoff wrote: post #16

I think there's a deeper cause behind many of these arguments. People hate to feel ripped off, to a degree that is highly irrational if you assess the impact in purely utilitarian terms. Even a billionaire will feel a bit shitty after paying $0.99 for a lemon. There are various reasons why this happens. Partly it's the fact they wasted time researching and purchasing the app, and people's time is usually more importa…

This also reminds me of a study mentioned in Dan Ariely's book Predictably Irrational (currently reading, great so far). Tversky and Kahneman gave people two scenarios. You go to buy a new office pen and find one for $25, but then you remember the same pen is on sale for $18 at a store 15 minutes away. Do you go? Most people do. Now you're shopping for a suit and you find a great one for $455, but someone tells you it's on sale for $448 at a store 15 minutes away. This time, most people don't make the trip. So is $7 worth fifteen minutes of your time, or isn't it? We apply a different standard depending on the reference price.

I'm not sure this is the same phenomenon that's going on with mobile apps, but a case can be made it's related. Arguably, the reference price is $0, so any deviation from that is going to be treated with the greatest significance. But now I'm just getting back to the OP's point that "Starbucks Has No Free Alternative", from a slightly different angle.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#137

Post by andrewfelix »

dpark wrote: post #131
andrewfelix wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's really no such thing as 'Aussie' coffee Demonstrably untrue. Like most coffee producers, a lot of the beans are imported, some of it is grown locally. But they are hand selected, blended and roasted here in Australia and are most definitely produced in commercial quantities to be consumed here and exported as far as Korea. To name but a few Campos, Sprocket, Lavazza. Australia has very rich Italian and Europ…

I recognized Lavazza, so I had to look it up. It's apparently an Italian company, with production in Italy, and seven subsidiaries in other countries (notably not Australia). Probably not the best choice to promote Aussie coffee. The others do seem to be Australian. By the way, does Australia count as a western nation? It seems to be in the wrong location for that. This is totally tangential to the coffee topic, just…

Culturally western, yes. While we're positioned in 'Oceania', we were settled(invaded?) by the British and had a 'White Australia Policy' up until the 70's, meaning most migrants were of European descent.

Good point on Lavazza, was a bad assumption.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#138

Post by samclearman »

alexanderh wrote: post #92
crazygringo wrote: post #81

Wow. The negativity of the comments here to this post is astounding. I personally find this post very insightful. Just yesterday, I bought the EA Tetris app for $0.99. I played it for three minutes, and decided I hated the "touch" interface for Tetris. It isn't Tetris at all. And it pissed me off that I paid money for something useless. It doesn't matter if I paid $20 for it or $0.99. It just makes me feel like a foo…

I would say review systems and internet research negates most of the 'gamble' involved with most app purchases. But I guess most users are just mindless consumer zombies. There are a few instances where you "wont know till ya try it yourself"... but they're few and far between with proper research. I think it really speaks to the expectation of developers here that users are expected to "gamble" on app purchases with…

That's the whole point: you don't have to research the coffee because you already know what it's like. People don't like to pay for stuff they don't like, and they don't like doing research. So if you can somehow assure them that they are going to like what you're selling, that's worth a lot. I'd rather spend $5 on a cup of coffee that I know I will like than $.05 on an app that I don't know I will like. I don't trust the opinions of people on the internet, or even most of my friends in real life, so reviews are not that useful to me.

Re: Stop Using The Cup of Coffee vs. $0.99 Cent App Analogy

#139

Post by mc32 »

dredmorbius wrote: post #53
mc32 wrote: post #18

I get the point, but I think the analogies are a bit artificial. "Starbucks is a trustable experience." The assumption is that all people all the time buy known brand coffee. From my own, I know I walk into coffee shops I have never been to before. Sometimes good, sometimes bad. Even at Starbucks there are times I ask for decaf and get caffed coffee, or other times, the green tea latte is just not mixed right, or the…

You're taking "Starbucks" too literally. Consider any tangible branded good, even if it's your local corner florist or a gas station. Tangible goods are largely non-free. The alternative to a cafe beverage is either one from a competing establishment, or one you make yourself (I'm considering water and coffee to not be directly competitive, YMMV, I don't drink decaf). I think you're understating the gambles involved…

Hmm, looking back, you're right. I missed the forest for the trees.

I guess then, the question is why people find it natural to pay for tangible goods like coffee (a temporary good, but physical), a movie (an experiential good, also ephemeral and not physical) which by the way can be either good or mostly poor, a hammer (an extremely re-usable good and physical good) preventive care (is this tangible? not physical, anyhow) but when it comes to SW, people, depending on platform, perhaps, just don't want to pay, even if it's a nominal amount and go to extraordinary and disproportionate lengths to scrutinize the purchase taking hours perhaps researching an insignificant (in dollar terms) purchase.

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