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UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

bbc.co.uk

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Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#131

I strongly advise anyone who isn't familiar with English law (so, you know, most people here) to actually read what lawyers have to say about the matter. There is a very good legal analysis here: http://www.headoflegal.com/2012/08/15/julian-assange-can-the... Whenever I see a story here about Julian Assange I just sigh. I don't understand how on the one hand people can be absolutely appalled when stories about sexism…

Are the Swedish police acting in a manner representative of a suspect wanted for questioning, known to be in a foreign country? Does Sweden regularly request extradition of people in similar circumstances?

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#132
I'm a little surprised by the HN crowd's desire to turn this into some kind of Michael Bay movie with diplomatic explosions left, right and centre: the phrase "act of war" is being dropped around as if some kind of violent confrontation would ever actually occur between Ecuador and the United Kingdom based on this. This is simply not the case; at most, it would be loosely unfair of the British government to 'bully' Ecuador into its bidding and they would protest as harshly as they could (not very). This is not a fair system; international relations is a system wherein "the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must"[1].

The Government here has advised that under through a sound legal process it may revoke the legal status of an instituion within and on its territory. Is this right? Well, it's a little unusual...alternatively, ignoring the interests and desires of Sweden, the European Union and the United States would be still further unwise for the British. Britain has its interests, and it must do what serves them best.

In this case, doing something less than usual is worth it: there's virtually no downside to upsetting a small Latin American country in the process. The British government just won't care. It's not fair, but for better or worse, that's that.

1: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't remember another time when a country used the diplomatic immunity of their embassy to harbor a fugitive from rape charges. We're in fairly uncharted territory.

It would be more to the point to say that they are harboring him from espionage charges. We don't have an international incident every time somebody refuses to wear a condom.

But he's not being shielded from any charges. The extradition request is for questioning; he simply hasn't been charged yet.

It's his story that, upon extradition to Sweden, the Swedes will turn around and hand him over to the US to be Gitmo'ed with extreme prejudice, but that's all it is thus far: his story. That said, it's certainly plausible; he's mightily pissed off the US government, which does seem to have a habit — particularly lately — of treating people that embarrass it rather less than gently. It would also explain how het-up the Swedes are to have him extradited, and the fact that Britain is willing to violate the Ecuadorian embassy (which, FTR, is not sovereign territory) in order to retrieve him. But idiotically zealous investigation of alleged rape (let alone lesser charges) isn't exactly unheard of, either.

Either way, however much good Assange has done the world by exposing the stuff he and WikiLeaks have exposed, he is an attention-whore, and his motives are pretty broadly suspect. Personally, I'd vastly prefer he not be subject to "extraordinary rendition" — not because of anything he's done, but because I don't think anyone should be shipped off to countries where they "interrogate" with rectally inserted broken beer bottles (to reference just one of the many stories that have bubbled up from that kind of thing). But that's just me.

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#134
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's some good propaganda there. BTW, I don't know if it's healthy to fantasize about punching people just based on how they look.

If it's propaganda then explain the reality of it, don't just claim victory through superior hidden knowledge and wander off. In regards to your second point, I deal with smug bastards on a day to day basis. Smug isn't so much about how someone looks as it is about how they look at you.

Neither of us know anything except what we've read in news stories which are filtered through layers of different political interests. Like I said, we've swallowed different propaganda.

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#135
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ecuador's justification is that they believe there is a chance that the USA is planning to extradite him from Sweeden and then charge him with a crime which is punishable by death. Ecuador believes that a death sentence is a violation of Assange's human rights.

Which is of course a highly suspect claim to make, since both Sweden and the UK do not extradite for crimes that are subject to the death penalty.

But of course, they are not extraditing him for those crimes.

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#136
I some how now expect loads of people turning up in anonymous masks outside the embassy with a group of people leaving also in aformentioned masks. There then ensues a combination of the Thomas Crown Affair and a Benny Hill sketch.

Now that possible outcome aside I do wonder if there are more important clear-cut cases of people in the UK wanted for questioning regarding crimes in Switzerland. I'm tending to think that if there was then that would of been made very public already and yet I have seen none. If he is in all effect Sitzerlands number one criminal suspect or wanted criminal in the UK and who's location is known then maybe this isn't as biased with regard to pursuit than any other case and only with the News value is it publicly deemed more impacting.

But thats not realy the issue, the issue if he ends up being shipped to America and lost in a maze of prisons that is the issue realy as if there was a case against him then America would of been granted a extradition from the UK, that did not happen. Now if that happens in Switzerland then that is the concern and the real issue and in that you can respect Mr Assange's concerns upon that matter and why he is taking the approach he is currently as that whole assurance has not been given that it will not happen. If he had that assurance then from my understanding is that this would not be an issue and in the news today. It is this that makes things concerning in how things are being possibly being handled.

RIP Yvonne Fletcher, justice was slow, but we do get there.

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#137
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sweden would like to question Julian Assange about allegations made be two women. These women have a right to make these accusations, and they have a right for the state to investigate them. Nobody could possibly deny this. You may have missed this bit in the article, at the very end: "An offer to the Swedish authorities by Ecuador for investigators to interview Mr Assange inside the embassy, was rejected."

So? Sweden is well within their rights to refuse that offer. They have an outstanding, legitimate European Arrest Warrant that was subject to many appeals, all of which were denied. I do not blame them for refusing that offer: are you suggesting if they did interview Assange in the embassy and decided they wanted to charge him he would just walk out happily? I doubt it.

Swedish law says that Assange can very well be interviewed over video link, police station and embassy (Even Ecuador offered). Despite this, the Swedish prosecutor is adamant that he should be on Swedish soil to be questioned.

If they did charge him at Ecuadorian embassy and then he refuses to leave, Ecuador would feel a lot more pressure and Assange would lose a lot of support. But now that it's clear that the Swedish prosecutor's blatant disregard for immediately interviewing him in favour of him being disadvantage in Sweden, there's even more support for Assange and Ecuador.

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#138
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the British authorities don’t want to look like idiots in front of the whole world ...they're looking like idiots right now.

Maybe they are misguided. But the publicity of this whole thing makes their (possible?) overreaction completely explainable without any conspiracy theories.

Calling them idiots is not a conspiracy theory.

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there are no rape charges. rape != sexual assault. and one could argue that "sex without a condom" with a naked woman already in bed with you by her own will is not rape, certainly. also there are no charges. merely an accusation. and they merely want to "question" him, which of course they could do easily without forcing him to go to Sweden. The whole thing is a pretty blatant sham, a masquerade for some other goal…

> and one could argue that "sex without a condom" with a naked woman already in bed with you by her own will is not rape, certainly If one was a misogynist who thought women lost their basic human rights as soon as their clothes were off, one could certainly argue that.

if one were a rude asshole, one would make the comment you just made

Re: UK threaten to enter Ecuadorian embassy and arrest Julian Assange

#140
post #83

About time we started applying the pressure... Assange is taking his supporters for a ride, if he's not guilty why doesn't he go back to Sweden and face the questions? As for this "I offered to talk to the Swedes in the UK" business it's bollocks, since when has law-enforcement done things at the convenience of the 'accused' The whole extradition to the US is a red-herring - have you seen how easy it is to extradite…

Yes, I don't know if he's guilty of rape or not (there seems to be a whiff of women scorned about it) but the Swedish justice system has as good a reputation as any.

Not when it comes to politics or copyright.

Two known events:

CIA extraordinary rendition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#Sweden

The Pirate Bay

Pirate Bay Judge Exposed as Member of Pro-Copyright Groups http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/04/pirateconflict/

Aftermath of The Pirate Bay Trial: Peter Sunde’s Plea http://falkvinge.net/2012/07/06/aftermath-of-the-pirate-bay-...

Pro-Copyright Judges Never Drop Cases Over Conflicts, So Why Does Megaupload Judge Have To Step Down? http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120718/00503119739/pro-co...

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