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Wyze pays $255k of tariffs on $167k of floodlights

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Re: Wyze pays $255k of tariffs on $167k of floodlights

#131

Post by 1659447091 »

glimshe wrote: post #116
ahstilde wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you want a worse floodlight at a higher price because of government protection?

If it employs an American and helps recreate our middle class... Yes I do. First they came for the floodlight maker's job. Next they will come for yours.

> Next they will come for yours.

Like "they" came for middle-class Americans in stable US government jobs?

If they cared about re-creating a middle class with jobs, they wouldn't have started with wantonly eliminating so many of them using a method similar to checking if the packaged spaghetti is cooked. Toss it randomly at the wall and see what sticks.

Re: Wyze pays $255k of tariffs on $167k of floodlights

#132

Post by Ekaros »

glimshe wrote: post #109
ENGNR wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was super interesting. I of course feel for them as a small business. They took risk and did the numbers and are trying to bring something great to their customers. One angle I didn’t see covered in response… dropping the quality on the product. If America just isn’t there yet on manufacturing, and people still only want to pay $139 for a computer case… surely someone in America can sell the customer a box of some so…

This. I can't understand why people don't see it. Of course we can't rebuild what China does overnight. But we can create new supply chains at a lower quality point and then climb back to our original level. I've seen it happening all over the world. I never believed that Trump's main goal is to bring everything back to the US. Instead, the government wants a new blend of suppliers that leans more heavily on the US b…

Building up from lower quality to higher quality works when you have cheap labour force due to cheap cost of living and lower regulation so you can take at least some liberties.

USA has neither, apart from maybe slave labour pool they have collected. So they would also need to compete in global markets with those countries also trying to climb up.

Re: Wyze pays $255k of tariffs on $167k of floodlights

#133

Post by thisisit »

ENGNR wrote: post #101
prof-dr-ir wrote: post #31

Similarly HYTE, mostly known for their PC cases, gives a remarkably detailed insight, both into their cost structure and how they are impacted by tariffs, in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W_mSOS1Qts&t=1394s They also address the question of moving their production to the US.

Was super interesting. I of course feel for them as a small business. They took risk and did the numbers and are trying to bring something great to their customers. One angle I didn’t see covered in response… dropping the quality on the product. If America just isn’t there yet on manufacturing, and people still only want to pay $139 for a computer case… surely someone in America can sell the customer a box of some so…

The more I read opinions like these, the more it becomes clear to me that people have no clue how markets or consumerism works. Questions are never considered. Like: Where are the raw materials for those local trailers and park benches coming from? What is the impact if some of the raw material used for local trailers and park benches are diverted towards making $139 low quality computer cases? Most importantly that even though "someone in America can sell the customer a box of some sort for $139", is there a market where people want to buy these low quality boxes?

The answer is that the time for sub par quality products is coming. Just not American made. If companies cannot import a decent quality box to sell for $139 and instead need to get a "barebones case" costing $70 and then mark it up to $139 to cover for tariffs -- that is what is going to happen. And given that lot of consumer protections like EPA, CFPB, FDA etc are being gutted - there is no going back if the box breaks down within the warranty period and you need or refund. Or worse yet, it contains lead or other harmful chemicals and it is going to be costly to remove those chemicals.

Re: Wyze pays $255k of tariffs on $167k of floodlights

#134

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

rsynnott wrote: post #94
netsharc wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hah, so Trump II is comparable to the start of the Covid pandemic: "we'll just have to hunker down and wait".

Oh, yeah, that is _very_ much how the markets are treating it. The idea that these tariffs might be _permanent_, is very much not priced in, at least not for the moment.

Even if they are permanent it'll be smarter for many companies to move manufacturing out of the US rather than in. If they're permanent the retaliatory tariffs other countries instituted in response to US tariffs mean that it'll be cheaper to build outside the US if selling outside the US. And the market of "not the US" is much bigger than the US market, so investing in the not-US market is more likely to lead to growth than investing in the US market.

Re: Wyze pays $255k of tariffs on $167k of floodlights

#135

Post by glimshe »

1659447091 wrote: post #131
glimshe wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it employs an American and helps recreate our middle class... Yes I do. First they came for the floodlight maker's job. Next they will come for yours.

> Next they will come for yours. Like "they" came for middle-class Americans in stable US government jobs? If they cared about re-creating a middle class with jobs, they wouldn't have started with wantonly eliminating so many of them using a method similar to checking if the packaged spaghetti is cooked. Toss it randomly at the wall and see what sticks.

Is that your vision for middle class jobs? Government? And who will pay for these... The "rich"?

Re: Wyze pays $255k of tariffs on $167k of floodlights

#136

Post by thisisit »

number6 wrote: post #40
voidUpdate wrote: post #37

Could someone explain to an idiot like me what the benefit of this is to the americans?

If they had bought American floodlights they had saved 255k in tarrifs. So if they had paid 200k for the floodlights they would have still been better of. One could argue, that there might be no American Floodlight Company - well here is the incentive to build one. Secondly the money isn't lost, it goes to the state. Like a tax, but it is called differently. With this 255k more the state can now subsidise the local f…

That is not even remotely correct. The American Floodlight Company would sell the floodlights for slightly below the 392k - the total amount these guys paid. Something like 350k and tell the consumers they just saved "42k". Because the alternative is? Import it and pay huge tariffs. This is what happened last time with washing machines.

The protectionism also means American Floodlight Company no longer needs to innovate. Because they can keep producing the same lights over and over again. What are people going to do? Look for innovative floodlights overseas and pay huge tariffs?

It also means American Floodlight Company products cannot be exported. It is costlier and not innovative. Japanese, Chinese, Koreans brands are going to leave them behind.

In the meantime, American Floodlight Company is a business, not a charity. They will find loopholes like get cheap parts -- this will be easier as world moves on to newer, more efficient lights, so that overall input costs are low - despite the tariffs. Then assemble it in US and claim it to be "Made in USA".

Win, Win for the company while the consumers can take a hike.

Re: Wyze pays $255k of tariffs on $167k of floodlights

#137

Post by number6 »

thisisit wrote: post #136
number6 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they had bought American floodlights they had saved 255k in tarrifs. So if they had paid 200k for the floodlights they would have still been better of. One could argue, that there might be no American Floodlight Company - well here is the incentive to build one. Secondly the money isn't lost, it goes to the state. Like a tax, but it is called differently. With this 255k more the state can now subsidise the local f…

That is not even remotely correct. The American Floodlight Company would sell the floodlights for slightly below the 392k - the total amount these guys paid. Something like 350k and tell the consumers they just saved "42k". Because the alternative is? Import it and pay huge tariffs. This is what happened last time with washing machines. The protectionism also means American Floodlight Company no longer needs to innov…

Yes that's the most likely outcome, but OP asked for the benefits - and I guess my explanation is the naïve thinking that lead to the tarrifs in the first place

Re: Wyze pays $255k of tariffs on $167k of floodlights

#138

Post by latchkey »

whatevermom wrote: post #20
almosthere wrote: post #17

I'm guessing a ton of new companies will pop up overnight in India, Taiwan, Vietnam, S Korea that simply purchase components from China and resell them to the US. Not exactly helping anyone.

This will happen in Cambodia. They are building a massive amount of factories near Sihanoukville where the Chinese goods will be stamped with « made in Cambodia » and shipped right away to the USA.

They've been preparing for this day for many years now. Whole silkroad through Laos and Cambodia to Sihanoukville.

Re: Wyze pays $255k of tariffs on $167k of floodlights

#139

Post by creer »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #46
Aurornis wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top voted comments I see are all supportive so far. There are a lot of comments asking why they don’t move manufacturing to Seattle. This theme is common among people who don’t understand how manufacturing works right now: They don’t realize that a product like this has many different parts from different places, down to the dozens of little SMT capacitors. You can’t just move the factory and avoid tariffs becaus…

This has been the most annoyingly infuriating part of the manufacturing conversation. People simply don't understand the scale and complexity of modern supply chains. By one estimate, it will take $40T to move all of China's existing manufacturing capacity and supply chains to the US, and it will take 20+ years if you're really motivated. People still think that order goes in and a factory makes the finished goods. I…

> By one estimate, it will take $40T to move all of China's existing manufacturing capacity and supply chains to the US, and it will take 20+ years if you're really motivated.

Which also simply cannot happen because even if the US don't want stuff manufactured in "China", the rest of the world does. So the US, with higher local costs, cannot reclaim the economy of scale that went into the current chinese supply chain. Seems to me, at best the US can split it: a high cost chain in the US, a low cost chain in the rest of the world. What the US MIGHT achieve (on a long time frame) is move most of the chinese part to other low cost countries. That was already well under way.

The US also don't have the available population to run these factories.

Re: Wyze pays $255k of tariffs on $167k of floodlights

#140

Post by hn1986 »

prof-dr-ir wrote: post #31

Similarly HYTE, mostly known for their PC cases, gives a remarkably detailed insight, both into their cost structure and how they are impacted by tariffs, in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W_mSOS1Qts&t=1394s They also address the question of moving their production to the US.

https://gamersnexus.net/news-features-deep-dive/tariffs-time...

This article they link to is excellent

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