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The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

happiness.hks.harvard.edu

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Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#131

Post by benfortuna »

prhn wrote: post #35

I'm not sure what caused this, but I think the expectations of modern friendship have become unrealistic. Maybe it's movies and TV, where a "close friend" is more or less a non judgemental therapist that will throw down in a fight for you. What is a close friend? Before we can start asking people if they have any we should probably agree on a definition. If you use the Hollywood standard, then probably none of us hav…

>The other challenge is finding people, especially as you get older. I've posted this before, but as you get older you really need to seek out established communities. Sports, trivia nights, things of that nature. Something where you can hop in and immediately meet 5+ people. Then you need to show up, over and over. That's how friendships form.

The article follows similar lines, but I feel "forcing friendships" just leads to shallow "friendships" with little meaning. In fact so many modern friendships are sustained by small talk, which Carl Jung derides as meaningless..

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#132

Post by 9rx »

api wrote: post #83
mikemcquaid wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have 2 young kids, run a widely used open source project and a startup, eat dinner with my kids 6/7 nights a week and do this. Here’s some ways how: My best friend comes over once a weekend and we watch the TV that my wife doesn’t want to. I participate in a sport (powerlifting) where I’ve made friends and there’s room to socialise while exercising. I chose to move back to my home town and also go to college there.…

If you moved from a high cost of living city back to your home town, how much did that have to do with it? In HCOL cities the crazy rent or mortgage costs keep everyone running and cut into discretionary funds for assistance.

The more interesting question is: If people in HCOL areas are so poor that they can't even afford to make time to bask in friendships with the people the city has to offer, why are they still there?

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#133

Post by tycho-newman »

dijksterhuis wrote: post #119
tycho-newman wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t make the distinction between asking and forcing. To me, you can ask why someone wants to die. But stopping them? Or asking them to stop? Eh, not up to me.

asking > The act of inquiring or requesting; a petition; solicitation. forcing > The accomplishing of any purpose violently, precipitately, prematurely, or with unusual expedition. - unless you’re a psychopath, your 20 year old offspring calling you at 4am about to kill themselves is gonna result in you doing basically anything you can to save them. it’s very easy to sit on the internet and take a perceived moral hig…

I get why you see this as me having an inflexible black and white rule. I see it differently.

I see respecting individual autonomy as the best way to respond to the shades of grey in life.

This respect for autonomy goes all the way to the ultimate act of choosing if and when to end your own life.

Even if that decision is a mistake, I believe individuals are free to make fatal mistakes.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#135

Post by toomuchtodo »

gavinray wrote: post #91
oddthink wrote: post #56

I don't really get where people with kids found these 6.5 hrs / wk to spend on friendships, or even the quoted current averages of 4 hrs / wk. On a workday, there isn't much time. I roll out of bed at 6:30, get the kids up and fed breakfast and out the door. I finally get actually working at 8:30-9:30, depending on if I exercise or not. Stop work in the 5:30-6 range, switch into making dinner, getting kids to eat din…

Was having kids worth this in your opinion -- genuine question?

Not OP, but have kids, and no, I would not do it again if I could do it over for similar reasons they enumerate.

Plants are the new pets, pets are the new kids, and human kids are exotic pets for the wealthy or crazy (or a combination of those traits).

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#136

Post by oddthink »

bethekidyouwant wrote: post #108
oddthink wrote: post #56

I don't really get where people with kids found these 6.5 hrs / wk to spend on friendships, or even the quoted current averages of 4 hrs / wk. On a workday, there isn't much time. I roll out of bed at 6:30, get the kids up and fed breakfast and out the door. I finally get actually working at 8:30-9:30, depending on if I exercise or not. Stop work in the 5:30-6 range, switch into making dinner, getting kids to eat din…

At 10 PM I walk to the local and have three pints. The woman is not working and socializes during the day with other moms.

I mean, I could walk down to a bar at 10pm, if I wanted to. I live in a city. But if I'm getting up at 6:30, I don't think I want a pint let alone three that late.

Plus, I'd still have two kids up, asking me to extend the wifi because they're not done with English yet or to help scan a page for math. I'm not going to just leave that to my partner.

Even the more traditional pint-after-work would leave me coming home tipsy at 7pm, having slacked off on all of dinner prep and child-wrangling. If I made a habit of that, it would get me my ass handed to me, and rightfully so.

I do wonder if the whole "pub-culture" thing was entirely predicated on the unpaid and unacknowledged work of women. And how much of that extended to other traditional extracurriculars like bowling leagues and clubs and such.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#137

Post by bilsbie »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #37
torben-friis wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not only lack of dependence, but also lack of idleness. Most of my friend interactions would come from things like having a moment with nothing to do in the bus, realizing I have no particular plans this weekend and reaching out to a couple friends to see if they’re available. Now those moments are instantly drowned by opening instagram before a thought bubbles up. And when the weekend eventually comes and there…

It's not only modern technology taking up time. I foolishly bought a project house and have spent nearly every weekend and some weeknights doing repairs and improvements. My SO also tends toward time consuming hobbies like gardening and aquariums. Add young children and every free moment in between is precious.

You could involve friends in those hobbies. In fact men do better hanging out if they have a goal.

My stepbrother has declined hang out invitations for decades but the minute I need the most minor house or car repair he’ll drop everything and be there all day.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#138

Post by bendigedig »

redczar wrote: post #36
jmyeet wrote: post #31

What happened? Capitalism. In American culture, hyper-individualism has become a virtue somehow but this too is just a symptom of capitalism. Why? Because people who act collectively are a threat to capitalist power structures. The whole "gig economy" is nothing more than needing a 2nd and 3rd job just to survive as real wages continue to stagnate or decline and costs keeping going up. That's less free time. The Inte…

What happened? Capitalism. It was desegregation. Read about the decline of public pools, municipal trash service and free ambulances.

But there is a world outside of the USA and some of the same problems are happening there too.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#139

Post by toomuchtodo »

mikemcquaid wrote: post #76
oddthink wrote: post #56

I don't really get where people with kids found these 6.5 hrs / wk to spend on friendships, or even the quoted current averages of 4 hrs / wk. On a workday, there isn't much time. I roll out of bed at 6:30, get the kids up and fed breakfast and out the door. I finally get actually working at 8:30-9:30, depending on if I exercise or not. Stop work in the 5:30-6 range, switch into making dinner, getting kids to eat din…

I have 2 young kids, run a widely used open source project and a startup, eat dinner with my kids 6/7 nights a week and do this. Here’s some ways how: My best friend comes over once a weekend and we watch the TV that my wife doesn’t want to. I participate in a sport (powerlifting) where I’ve made friends and there’s room to socialise while exercising. I chose to move back to my home town and also go to college there.…

You have resources many parents don’t. Congrats on the luck (genuinely, no snark), but the median is having a much worse time.

https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/parents-under-pressu...

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#140

Post by trgn »

oddthink wrote: post #56

I don't really get where people with kids found these 6.5 hrs / wk to spend on friendships, or even the quoted current averages of 4 hrs / wk. On a workday, there isn't much time. I roll out of bed at 6:30, get the kids up and fed breakfast and out the door. I finally get actually working at 8:30-9:30, depending on if I exercise or not. Stop work in the 5:30-6 range, switch into making dinner, getting kids to eat din…

same. tag teaming has helped. our weekends are essentially split.
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