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NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

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Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#131

Post by throwawaymaths »

lesuorac wrote: post #124
rahimnathwani wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The options you have: A) disagree and commit B) disagree and wait to be fired C) appear to commit, but secretly subvert your (elected) boss's plans/intentions I use the word 'boss' here because the president has the right to hire and fire for this role: SEC. 5. 42 U.S.C. 1864 (a) The Director of the Foundation (referred to in this Act as the ‘‘Director’’) shall be appointed by the President by and with the advice and…

Is it disagree and commit? NSF is an "independent agency" [1] so if the job you were appointed to an confirmed by congress (senate) is at odds with the presidents desires I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be a problem for the president not you. Similar to all those inspector generals who just gave up when they were illegally fired. Literally your job is to prevent the president from corruption, how are you going to do…

Seems unconstitutional for congress to be able to create a regulatory agency fully outside of the executive's control, as who will check the congress's power? Appointment and confirmation exists so both branches must assent to all officers of then government

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#132

Post by ajross »

mlsu wrote: post #128
jimbokun wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two failed impeachment attempts, countless lawsuits, and now the Supreme Court has more or less inoculated Trump from any further prosecution attempts. The checks and balances have all been exhausted. There are no bullets left in the gun.

Lots of everyday people have a tremendous amount of power. C-suite executives for example. The concrete example of this is Harvard and some of the big law firms (Jenner & Block and WilmerHale). That is what resistance looks like now. Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison is an example of an entity that should have resisted, but folded instead. Unfortunately, I think a lot of the C-suite at big US corporations do n…

> I think a lot of the C-suite at big US corporations do not quite realize this about their position

It's true, that they risk the erosion of their status and the assumption of their power by the state over the medium to long term. But it is also true that in the short term they can beat their competitors by a carefully targetted bribe. There are significant upsides to getting behind the administration, and you can't ignore that.

This kind of corruption is literally how feudal oligarchies form.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#133

Post by KerrAvon »

AcerbicZero wrote: post #120
sathackr wrote: post #4

One thing I don't understand is people resigning on principles. If something bad is happening to an organization that I hold a significant amount of clout and power in, I'm not just going to leave and hand the reigns to someone on 'their side' -- I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. So many people are just leaving...instead of fighting. Which seems like it's going to have the effect of j…

You're getting a lot of pushback, but this resonates with me. I guess I have a hard time understanding the value in a "noble departure" rather than just going down swinging. If a shark was eating me, I wouldn't say "welp I'm boned, better just resign from life". I'd punch the shark, until that shark had to fire me from life. Maybe from a PR perspective its somehow better? Idk, I don't see it.

1. The resignation is an important signal to other people that bad things are happening. Not everyone is paying attention; dramatic resignations are events that might help pierce the media veil.

2. At some point, if you can't stop it and they won't fire you, you're a collaborator. There's a point where your noble stance becomes "even though I desperately want not to put people into gas chambers it's better if I'm the concentration camp director because I can reduce the number of people we put into the gas chambers by manipulating spreadsheets behind the scenes." You can justify that to yourself, maybe. I would strongly advise reading some history before going down that road. You and your descendants have to live with that forever.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#134

Post by jltsiren »

timschmidt wrote: post #79
Ar-Curunir wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's multiple reasons why what you said is just wrong. First, if academics wanted to work on topics mandated by somebody else, they would go work in industry for that somebody, and earn much more money than they earn right now. Second, most academic scientists do not do anything relevant to Musk's companies. Do you expect a chemist to pivot to self-driving cars? Or a pure mathematician to whatever X.ai is doing? T…

> First, if academics wanted to work on topics mandated by somebody else, they would go work in industry for that somebody, and earn much more money than they earn right now. Very few academics become principle investigators. Most every academic who's not a PI is working on something for that PI.

The vast majority of those working for a PI are students and postdocs, which are inherently trainee positions. Though, depending on the field and the PI, trainees may also have plenty of freedom to work on their own topics. If you want an actual career in the academia, the main options are becoming a PI or choosing a teaching-focused position. There are some staff scientists and similar, but such positions are rarer than tenured professors.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#135

Post by ugh123 »

sathackr wrote: post #4

One thing I don't understand is people resigning on principles. If something bad is happening to an organization that I hold a significant amount of clout and power in, I'm not just going to leave and hand the reigns to someone on 'their side' -- I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. So many people are just leaving...instead of fighting. Which seems like it's going to have the effect of j…

I can think of cases where new employers clearly act without integrity and that may make certain employees uneasy about being asked to do things that may be unethical.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#136

Post by dghlsakjg »

linkregister wrote: post #98
dghlsakjg wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I got: Send people the http:// version of links instead of https:// I actually have no idea how this would disrupt anything.

It would slow down the operation of the organization. In this case, it's counterproductive to the director's aims. The director's goal is to maximize grant funding; a functional bureaucracy is essential for that goal. There is nothing the director can do to increase the funding, which is being cut by an external source. The legality of the funding cut is unclear, but the director has no agency in the outcome of a leg…

But how would sending the http link slow things down?

Most link parsers, browsers, and sites will happily redirect you to available encrypted sites these days.

And even when they don't this is extremely dangerous advice to give for people who aren't technical.

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#137

Post by tobias3 »

ziddoap wrote: post #13
sathackr wrote: post #4

One thing I don't understand is people resigning on principles. If something bad is happening to an organization that I hold a significant amount of clout and power in, I'm not just going to leave and hand the reigns to someone on 'their side' -- I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. So many people are just leaving...instead of fighting. Which seems like it's going to have the effect of j…

> I'm going to stay and fight and try to make whatever impact I can. Can you give me some examples of how you would fight? Boss comes in (or whoever more powerful than me, e.g. someone acting on the president's orders), says something with the gist of "Do this, or get fired". What are the next steps that I can take that won't get me fired, but also count as fighting back?

Don't do it. Perhaps obfuscate and delay as much as possible that you are not actually doing it. Perhaps get fired. Then go to court for wrongful termination (this would depend on the order being unlawful)?

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#138

Post by lelandfe »

throwawaymaths wrote: post #131
lesuorac wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it disagree and commit? NSF is an "independent agency" [1] so if the job you were appointed to an confirmed by congress (senate) is at odds with the presidents desires I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be a problem for the president not you. Similar to all those inspector generals who just gave up when they were illegally fired. Literally your job is to prevent the president from corruption, how are you going to do…

Seems unconstitutional for congress to be able to create a regulatory agency fully outside of the executive's control, as who will check the congress's power? Appointment and confirmation exists so both branches must assent to all officers of then government

> who will check the congress's power

The judiciary. E.g Bowsher v. Synar

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#139

Post by nickff »

warkdarrior wrote: post #61
staunton wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The starving peasants in could afford it, right?

The trick is to keep the poor people poor, but not too poor. Nothing left to lose and all that...

Or else they might rebel like the North Koreans, Cubans, and Eritreans do?

Re: NSF director to resign amid grant terminations, job cuts, and controversy

#140

Post by nandomrumber »

soared wrote: post #115
square_usual wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the one remaining possible check - a literal Supreme Court order - has also been ignored.

I mean, there is one more check, one more not so proverbial bullet in a gun.

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