Live data from Hacker News

You wouldn't steal a font

fedi.rib.gay

131–140 of 421 posts

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#131
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is maybe nothing in the entire world that I am less sympathetic towards than the cause of font piracy / font liberation. You have perfectly good --- in fact, historically excellent --- fonts loaded by default for free on any computer you buy today. Arguing for the oppression of font licenses is, to me, like arguing about how much it costs to buy something at Hermès. Just don't shop at Hermès.

I agree the average person is likely fine with the fonts on their computer, but this is profoundly misunderstanding the importance of design. Typefaces are incredibly important, and have been for centuries. I'd argue that complaining about font prices is less like a Hermes bag, and more like complaining about high-end ingredients when a supermarket has cheap stuff. Yes, you can get away with cheaper materials when co…

So "Typefaces are incredibly important", just not important enough to pay for (or create yourself)???

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#132
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree the average person is likely fine with the fonts on their computer, but this is profoundly misunderstanding the importance of design. Typefaces are incredibly important, and have been for centuries. I'd argue that complaining about font prices is less like a Hermes bag, and more like complaining about high-end ingredients when a supermarket has cheap stuff. Yes, you can get away with cheaper materials when co…

Modern included fonts aren’t that bad. It’s more like using tomato sauce instead of fancy handmade chilli. Your meal doesn’t deeply suffer, it’s just a bit bland.

Branding is very important.

Branding requires being distinctive, mixing novel visual and other aspects in a pleasing way.

As far as I have been able to tell no major platform ships with the universal font of fonts (full coverage of all possible fonts with 4.5Mb seed) “AnyStyleYouWant” font.

And none of the fonts they do ship have the “distinctive” feature.

Until that day comes…

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#133
post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree the average person is likely fine with the fonts on their computer, but this is profoundly misunderstanding the importance of design. Typefaces are incredibly important, and have been for centuries. I'd argue that complaining about font prices is less like a Hermes bag, and more like complaining about high-end ingredients when a supermarket has cheap stuff. Yes, you can get away with cheaper materials when co…

Modern included fonts aren’t that bad. It’s more like using tomato sauce instead of fancy handmade chilli. Your meal doesn’t deeply suffer, it’s just a bit bland.

And importantly... Just like with food, the overwhelming majority of people will not notice at all.

Even trained wine tasters can't tell the difference between cheap and expensive wine reliably.

Normal people can't even tell what flavor of skittle they are eating without the visual color cue.

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#134
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is maybe nothing in the entire world that I am less sympathetic towards than the cause of font piracy / font liberation. You have perfectly good --- in fact, historically excellent --- fonts loaded by default for free on any computer you buy today. Arguing for the oppression of font licenses is, to me, like arguing about how much it costs to buy something at Hermès. Just don't shop at Hermès.

I agree the average person is likely fine with the fonts on their computer, but this is profoundly misunderstanding the importance of design. Typefaces are incredibly important, and have been for centuries. I'd argue that complaining about font prices is less like a Hermes bag, and more like complaining about high-end ingredients when a supermarket has cheap stuff. Yes, you can get away with cheaper materials when co…

Even under this analogy you're complaining about the price of luxury goods and saying that it's no wonder people shoplift to steal the truffles because they're so darn expensive.

If you can't afford the license for the font, your app is small-time enough that you can make do with one of the many, many high-quality fonts that are available for free, there's no need to pirate it. If your app is big enough that the difference matters, then you can likely afford the sticker price.

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#135

That is an absolutely brilliant turn of events – strong evidence that the font in an anti-piracy campaign was itself arguably a copyright-infringing knock-off. Someone should sue FACT for copyright infringement – and refuse to settle.

You can't copyright a font.

You can copyright just about anything as long as you have the _money_

T-Mobile trademarked a very specific pink, "Magenta"

There’s even a company that holds trademarks on a set of colors, Pantone.

Courts have yet to reverse or revoke these silly trademarks.

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#136
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are roughly zero apps out there that would ”deeply suffer” from having to use freely available and/or system supported fonts.

That's not true at all. You think games would feel as immersive if everything was Calibri? Magazine-style articles would feel as tactile if they all used the same system fonts? Etc. You may not care about fonts, but to say they don't matter is a misunderstanding. For example, I could glibly say we only need one programming language (the user doesn't care what syntax you used before it was compiled down to 1s and 0s!)…

>You think games would feel as immersive if everything was Calibri?

What computer are you buying that only has one font? There are dozens of fonts, covering all kinds of styles, on every desktop sold.

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#137
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are roughly zero apps out there that would ”deeply suffer” from having to use freely available and/or system supported fonts.

That's not true at all. You think games would feel as immersive if everything was Calibri? Magazine-style articles would feel as tactile if they all used the same system fonts? Etc. You may not care about fonts, but to say they don't matter is a misunderstanding. For example, I could glibly say we only need one programming language (the user doesn't care what syntax you used before it was compiled down to 1s and 0s!)…

Is your point weakened by the fact that there is not one freely available font to use commercially, but literally thousands?

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true at all. You think games would feel as immersive if everything was Calibri? Magazine-style articles would feel as tactile if they all used the same system fonts? Etc. You may not care about fonts, but to say they don't matter is a misunderstanding. For example, I could glibly say we only need one programming language (the user doesn't care what syntax you used before it was compiled down to 1s and 0s!)…

I admire your passion, but... as someone who is not deeply interested in fonts, I view them in largely functional terms. Can I read it? Does it look ok? Programming language choice has an aesthetic side, but it is also very much a functional concern. Can I write secure code? Will it be performant? Will it be maintainable? Different languages represent different functional tradeoffs. Are fonts really the same kind of…

Arial v Helvetica is an interesting example, because Arial was designed basically as a cost-efficient alternative to Helvetica. So, the reason you'd choose between the two is exactly the thing the original comment was complaining about – licensing! They were designed to be metrically compatible... meaning, the character widths and spaces are exactly the same. This means that switching to Arial won't affect the layout of your document. This was more important when things were more analog, but it's still important with digital documents: for example, it could mess up the number of pages, which would affect meta content or create line breaks that seem meaningful but aren't. Additionally, having things like a widow (a word by itself on a new line) can disrupt the visual flow and draw focus to or away from content in ways you don't desire.

But just because those two typefaces are quite similar (and the reason to pick between them is largely financial/convenience) doesn't mean you'd never want to have more fine-grained control over the text you're working with.

You mentioned security. When I'm editing this comment, 0 and O are very different (the zero has a slash through it), however when I hit save they look quite similar. (But because we're all using system fonts on HN, it might be different for you). While it's often just a stylistic choice, in many situations the two characters would be indistinguishable and that would be an issue, which is why someone might choose a typeface where characters are significantly different. Think a password you have to transcribe.

If you know your font will be used in a quite small size, you may want one that is optimized for being read at tiny sizes. If you're displaying something technical, a monowidth font is better suited.

And all of this focused on utility for the most part; I'm leaving out all the reasons you'd want it for stylistic reasons. If you're trying to make people feel at ease, you may want typeface where the end of the strokes are rounded, for example. Sometimes you want people to feel a certain way, in the same way you modulate your tone when talking.

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true at all. You think games would feel as immersive if everything was Calibri? Magazine-style articles would feel as tactile if they all used the same system fonts? Etc. You may not care about fonts, but to say they don't matter is a misunderstanding. For example, I could glibly say we only need one programming language (the user doesn't care what syntax you used before it was compiled down to 1s and 0s!)…

Is your point weakened by the fact that there is not one freely available font to use commercially, but literally thousands?

I guess it comes down to how you view the concept of "the medium is the message". Should the tone be set by the creator of the software / writer of the blog post / etc, or should the end user choose one typeface for everything (or have fine-grained control over everything they read and view?)

Re: You wouldn't steal a font

#140

This comment section is precisely what I expected upon discovering this very funny anecdote regarding the irony and hypocrisy involved with the infamous anti-piracy advocacy of the late '90's/early '00s. Peak HN--didactic, humorless, and lost in its own takes about the absolute least relevant detail of the story: font licensing. This sounds very critical, but I assure you, these are my people. I rather find it very r…

I'm also enjoying the conversation, but IMO font licensing is core to whether or not there is actual irony and hypocrisy at play (specifically the copyright aspect, and whether or not the font clone actually infringed copyright).
Post reply on HN