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Gemma 3 QAT Models: Bringing AI to Consumer GPUs

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Re: Gemma 3 QAT Models: Bringing AI to Consumer GPUs

#131
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MacBook Pro M2 with 64GB of RAM. That's why I tend to be limited to Ollama and MLX - stuff that requires NVIDIA doesn't work for me locally.

> MacBook Pro M2 with 64GB of RAM Are there non-mac options with similar capabilities?

It’s not out yet, but the upcoming Framework desktop [0] is supposed to have a similar unified memory setup.

[0] https://frame.work/desktop

Re: Gemma 3 QAT Models: Bringing AI to Consumer GPUs

#132
post #7
post #2

Available on ollama: https://ollama.com/library/gemma3

Make sure you're using the "-it-qat" suffixed models like "gemma3:27b-it-qat"

Thanks. I was wondering why my open-webui said that I already had the model. I bet a lot of people are making the same mistake I did and downloading just the old, post-quantized 27B.

Re: Gemma 3 QAT Models: Bringing AI to Consumer GPUs

#133
post #45

I think gemma-3-27b-it-qat-4bit is my new favorite local model - or at least it's right up there with Mistral Small 3.1 24B. I've been trying it on an M2 64GB via both Ollama and MLX. It's very, very good, and it only uses ~22Gb (via Ollama) or ~15GB (MLX) leaving plenty of memory for running other apps. Some notes here: https://simonwillison.net/2025/Apr/19/gemma-3-qat-models/ Last night I had it write me a complete…

The original gemma3:27b also took only 22GB using Ollama on my 64GB MacBook. I'm quite confused that the QAT took the same. Do you know why? Which model is better? `gemma3:27b`, or `gemma3:27b-qat`?

Re: Gemma 3 QAT Models: Bringing AI to Consumer GPUs

#134
Indeed!! I have swapped out qwen2.5 for gemma3:27b-it-qat using Ollama for routine work on my 32G memory Mac.

gemma3:27b-it-qat with open-codex, running locally, is just amazingly useful, not only for Python dev, but for Haskell and Common Lisp also.

I still like Gemini 2.5 Pro and o3 for brainstorming or working on difficult problems, but for routine work it (simply) makes me feel good to have everything open source/weights running on my own system.

Wen I bought my 32G Mac a year ago, I didn't expect to be so happy as running gemma3:27b-it-qat with open-codex locally.

Re: Gemma 3 QAT Models: Bringing AI to Consumer GPUs

#135
post #127
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you quote tps? More and more I start to realize that cost saving is a small problem for local LLMs. If it is too slow, it becomes unusable, so much that you might as well use public LLM endpoints. Unless you really care about getting things done locally without sending information to another server. With OpenAI API/ChatGPT, I get response much faster than I can read, and for simple question, it means I just need…

Sometimes TPS doesn't matter. I've generated textual descriptions for 100K or so images in my photo archive, some of which I have absolutely no interest in uploading to someone else's computer. This works pretty well with Gemma. I use local LLMs all the time for things where privacy is even remotely important. I estimate this constitutes easily a quarter of my LLM usage.

This is a really cool idea. Do you pretrain the model so it can tag people? I have so many photo's that it seems impossible to ever categorize them,using a workflow like yours might help a lot

Re: Gemma 3 QAT Models: Bringing AI to Consumer GPUs

#136
post #45

I think gemma-3-27b-it-qat-4bit is my new favorite local model - or at least it's right up there with Mistral Small 3.1 24B. I've been trying it on an M2 64GB via both Ollama and MLX. It's very, very good, and it only uses ~22Gb (via Ollama) or ~15GB (MLX) leaving plenty of memory for running other apps. Some notes here: https://simonwillison.net/2025/Apr/19/gemma-3-qat-models/ Last night I had it write me a complete…

The original gemma3:27b also took only 22GB using Ollama on my 64GB MacBook. I'm quite confused that the QAT took the same. Do you know why? Which model is better? `gemma3:27b`, or `gemma3:27b-qat`?

I suspect your "original gemma3:27b" was a quantized model since the non-quantized (16bit) version needs around 54gb.

Re: Gemma 3 QAT Models: Bringing AI to Consumer GPUs

#137
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so what is the real comparison against DeepSeek r1 ? Would be good to know which is actually more cost efficient and open (reproducible build) to run locally.

half the amount of those dots is what it takes. but also, why compare a 27B model with a +600B? that doesn't make sense.

It's an older image that they just reused for the blog post. It's on https://ai.google.dev/gemma for example

Re: Gemma 3 QAT Models: Bringing AI to Consumer GPUs

#138
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The significant convenience benefits outweigh the higher TPS that vLLM offers in the context of my single machine homelab GPU server. If I was hosting it for something more critical than just myself and a few friends chatting with it, sure. Being able to just paste a model name into Open WebUI and run it is important to me though. It is important to know about both to decide between the two for your use case though.

Running any HF model on vllm is as simple as pasting a model name into one command in your terminal.

What command is it? Because that was not at all my experience.

Re: Gemma 3 QAT Models: Bringing AI to Consumer GPUs

#139
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes TPS doesn't matter. I've generated textual descriptions for 100K or so images in my photo archive, some of which I have absolutely no interest in uploading to someone else's computer. This works pretty well with Gemma. I use local LLMs all the time for things where privacy is even remotely important. I estimate this constitutes easily a quarter of my LLM usage.

This is a really cool idea. Do you pretrain the model so it can tag people? I have so many photo's that it seems impossible to ever categorize them,using a workflow like yours might help a lot

No, tagging of people is already handled by another model. Gemma just describes what's in the image, and produces a comma separated list of keywords. No additional training is required besides a few tweaks to the prompt so that it outputs just the description, without any "fluff". E.g. it normally prepends such outputs with "Here's a description of the image:" unless you really insist that it should output only the description. I suppose I could use constrained decoding into JSON or something to achieve the same, but I didn't mess with that.

On some images where Gemma3 struggles Mistral Small produces better descriptions, BTW. But it seems harder to make it follow my instructions exactly.

I'm looking forward to the day when I can also do this with videos, a lot of which I also have no interest in uploading to someone else's computer.

Re: Gemma 3 QAT Models: Bringing AI to Consumer GPUs

#140

This is what local LLMs need—being treated like first-class citizens by the companies that make them. That said, the first graph is misleading about the number of H100s required to run DeepSeek r1 at FP16. The model is FP8.

Also ~noone runs h100 at home, ie at batch size 1. What matters is throughput. With 37b active parameters and a massive deployment throughout (per gpu) should be similar to Gemma.
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