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DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

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Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#131

Post by eric_cc »

vlovich123 wrote: post #124
nfw2 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven’t taken actions against me misinterpreting things. Why do you keep virtue signaling?

What’s inherently wrong with virtue signaling though? I’m signaling virtues of thoughtfulness and careful, reasoned, intellectual debate. What virtues do you think you’re signaling about yourself?

Well since we’re in a thread about talking to dolphins:

The problem with virtue signaling is that it’s parroting virtue for social praise. This parrot-like, repeater-node behavior often attempts to move the conversation to virtue talking points and away from the specific topic.

To be clear, this is just about online virtue signaling. It’s just as silly in the physical world - certain attire, gestures, tribal obedience, etc.

Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#132

Post by [deleted] »

stevage wrote: post #83
amarant wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's trendy to hate Google, and even more trendy to hate anything AI. The cynicism on display here is little more than virtue signalling and/or upvote farming. Sad to see such thoughtless behaviour has reached even this bastion of reason.

> It's trendy to hate Google, Calling something "trendy" is a great way to try to dismiss it without actually providing any counterargument. The deep suspicion of anything Google does is extremely well justified IMHO.

[deleted]

Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#133

Post by waldohatesyou »

garciasn wrote: post #42
groby_b wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We couldn't make something work, so nobody can make anything work" is also a claim you can make, yes. It's rather unsound reasoning, but you certainly can.

Oh I can make it work; but it’s definitely not as easy as they claim for business users and that was my point.

They have sufficient control over their model that they can presumably tailor it to their needs. Perhaps if you acquired analogous control, you’d have more success.

Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#135

Post by nandomrumber »

zeroping wrote: post #106
srean wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Know the story. Such a tragic end.

And it's a story that haunts the marine biology field. Imagine having to explain that one every time someone asks about it.

Oh yeah, imagine having to explain an experiment you had nothing to do with, that happened before you were born.

Imagine having to explain dragnet surveillance every time someone finds out you know how to code.

Imagine having to explain the Exon Valdez every time someone asks you about your car.

Roll out the reparations!

Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#136

Post by reptilian »

amarant wrote: post #44
ZeroCool2u wrote: post #12

Wow, there's a lot of cynicism in this thread, even for HN. Regardless of whether or not it works perfectly, surely we can all relate to the childhood desire to 'speak' to animals at one point or another? You can call it a waste of resources or someones desperate attempt at keeping their job if you want, but these are marine biologists. I imagine cross species communication would be a major achievement and seems like…

It's trendy to hate Google, and even more trendy to hate anything AI. The cynicism on display here is little more than virtue signalling and/or upvote farming. Sad to see such thoughtless behaviour has reached even this bastion of reason.

Google is where great technology and innovation goes to die.

Please give me one example in the last decade where meta or Google research has led to actual products or open-sourced technologies, and not just expensive proprietary experiments shelved after billions were spent on them?

I'll wait.

Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#137

Post by nandomrumber »

tenuousemphasis wrote: post #108
efitz wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are omnivores. I am unapologetic about obeying biological imperatives to eat other animals. At the same time, I want to be as humane as practical; I don’t want to cause needless suffering to any creature. If I kill a bug, I don’t want it to suffer. Same with food animals. The more like me an animal is, the less I want to eat it. There are a lot of humans. Any action to forcefully reduce the number of humans or…

Really? You cannot fathom an animal population that has exceeded it's ecosystem's capacity and has no predators so needs to be culled?

Doesn't happen.

That situation always auto-corrects as resource availability shifts.

What does happen is humans find things like mice / locust / kangaroo plagues inconvenient, so we decide to intervene.

It's not like lions get tired of all those pesky gazelle getting up in their grillz and find the need to get about in helicopters thinning the herd.

Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#138

Post by nfw2 »

vlovich123 wrote: post #124
nfw2 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven’t taken actions against me misinterpreting things. Why do you keep virtue signaling?

What’s inherently wrong with virtue signaling though? I’m signaling virtues of thoughtfulness and careful, reasoned, intellectual debate. What virtues do you think you’re signaling about yourself?

To call something “virtue-signaling” implies the primary motivation of the behavior is to associate characteristics with oneself. There is a problem with virtue signaling in a discussion if the purpose of the discussion is to evaluate ideas in an abstract space —- the discussion then ceases to be in good faith.

Moreover, if all statements made in such a context needed to be acted out in someway, that would negate the whole purpose of the abstract space.

The purpose of my rhetoric in this thread has been to illustrate the issues with your definition rather than to say something about myself.

Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#139

Post by bavell »

pegasus wrote: post #128
Der_Einzige wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s gross is the idea that plants are “lower” and thus less deserving of value to life. Either embrace radically life denying Jainism, anti-natalism, voluntary extinction movement, and benevolent world exploder theory - or admit that you are just as cruel as those you implicitly claim to be better than (as a presumably non gross person) But white vegans aren’t prepared to actually reckon with the logical conclusio…

How are plants not lower on an evolution scale than say, mammals? They are less complex biologically and less capable of affecting their environment.

Surely some debate to be had here. Plants absolutely affect their environments, just over longer timescales.

Re: DolphinGemma: How Google AI is helping decode dolphin communication

#140

Post by nandomrumber »

addicted wrote: post #118
k7sune wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just reading how fishing industry’s longlines have caught many dolphins and other bycatches. It would be great to be able to give them warnings, or even better, to ask them to keep other big animals away from the longlines.

Or, you know, don’t fish at all so we don’t kill possibly trillions of sentient fish every year for no necessary reason whatsoever? Side bonus, we also don’t kill the highly sentient and highly intelligent creatures you’re concerned about.

3 billion people get at least 20% of their protein from fish, and roughly 500 million rely on fishing for a pay check.[1]

Those people can all just starve, and you're fine with that?

1. https://www.worldwildlife.org/stories/will-there-be-enough-f...

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