Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Usability Improvements in GCC 15

developers.redhat.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 231 posts

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#131

Post by IshKebab »

cherryteastain wrote: post #32
dralley wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet another reason why I'm not a fan of Richard Stallman. Most of the decisions he made over the past 25 years have been self-defeating and led directly to the decline of the influence of his own movement. It's not that "the GCC project" avoided that for ideological reason, Stallman was personally a veto on that issue for years, and his personal objection led to several people quitting the project for LLVM, with a co…

Without GNU, GPL and Richard Stallman, FOSS would not exist in the first place. The GPL forced companies to make FOSS a thing, whether they liked it or not.

I doubt that. People often say "without we wouldn't have !" but it's nonsense. Someone else would have done it just slightly later.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#132

Post by trelane »

azinman2 wrote: post #93
cherryteastain wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without GNU, GPL and Richard Stallman, FOSS would not exist in the first place. The GPL forced companies to make FOSS a thing, whether they liked it or not.

And then the world started moving on, with other licenses that gave even more freedom and flexibility. It was a great start, but you need to adapt or you perish.

> other licenses that gave even more freedom and flexibility

That gave vendors more freedom and flexibility (to lock their software away from their customers.)

As usual, customers got less freedom and flexibility.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#133

Post by azinman2 »

trelane wrote: post #132
azinman2 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then the world started moving on, with other licenses that gave even more freedom and flexibility. It was a great start, but you need to adapt or you perish.

> other licenses that gave even more freedom and flexibility That gave vendors more freedom and flexibility (to lock their software away from their customers.) As usual, customers got less freedom and flexibility.

I disagree. They got software that’s open under a different license that otherwise would have just been purely proprietary, or not created at all (due to the compounding effects of open source)

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#134

Post by trelane »

azinman2 wrote: post #133
trelane wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> other licenses that gave even more freedom and flexibility That gave vendors more freedom and flexibility (to lock their software away from their customers.) As usual, customers got less freedom and flexibility.

I disagree. They got software that’s open under a different license that otherwise would have just been purely proprietary, or not created at all (due to the compounding effects of open source)

We are currently talking about GCC, where they would have gotten the source prior to LLVM.

> They got software that’s open under a different license that otherwise would have just been purely proprietary

This is not a given, even outside of compilers. It's a heck of a cope there.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#135

Post by anthk »

mort96 wrote: post #98
anthk wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you from 2001? Sorry, but Apple at servers' market it's non-existent. RH and Canonical make tons of money thanks to being THE platform of the ubiquituous internet. Support is not free.

Are you calling Linux a UNIX? I mean GNU/Linux is certainly a UNIX-like system, but aren't "UNIXes" typically used to refer to operating systems which stem from AT&T's UNIX, such as the BSDs and Solaris and HP-UX and the like? GNU's Not UNIX after all

GNU isn't Unix as NT isn't Win32.

Gnu promotes Unix, but also promotes Emacs on top. NT can run Win32 on top of it, but there's far more than Win32 with NT systems. Just get ReactOS and open the NT object explorer under explorer.exe.

Far more advanced than Windows 95/98.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#136

Post by azinman2 »

trelane wrote: post #134
azinman2 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. They got software that’s open under a different license that otherwise would have just been purely proprietary, or not created at all (due to the compounding effects of open source)

We are currently talking about GCC, where they would have gotten the source prior to LLVM. > They got software that’s open under a different license that otherwise would have just been purely proprietary This is not a given, even outside of compilers. It's a heck of a cope there.

> Without GNU, GPL and Richard Stallman, FOSS would not exist in the first place. The GPL forced companies to make FOSS a thing, whether they liked it or not.

I was responding to this, which is more widespread than GCC (although it was one of the first wins of the GNU).

There were various companies who wanted to add on backends and other bits to GCC, but wouldn’t due to the license. That’s one of the reasons LLVM is so popular.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#137

Post by azinman2 »

IshKebab wrote: post #131
cherryteastain wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without GNU, GPL and Richard Stallman, FOSS would not exist in the first place. The GPL forced companies to make FOSS a thing, whether they liked it or not.

I doubt that. People often say "without we wouldn't have !" but it's nonsense. Someone else would have done it just slightly later.

The question is if that person would have dedicated their life in the same way.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#138

Post by trelane »

School-Cotton wrote: post #51
pjmlp wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And FOSS folks most likely would like to enjoy those patches as well on their installations.

And they do! You can choose not to contribute your changes back to permissively-licensed software, but in actual practice most people do contribute them. It's not like the Rust compiler is proprietary software with their own closed-source fork of LLVM...

> You can choose not to contribute your changes back to permissively-licensed software, but in actual practice most people do contribute them.

They contribute some things, sure. But the also don't contribute some things. It is hard to know how much because it's kept secret from all of us, even their own customers.

> "It's not like the Rust compiler is proprietary software with their own closed-source fork of LLVM..."

Rust no, hut there are a lot of proprietary, semi-incompatible proprietary forks out there.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#139

Post by jenadine »

nightfly wrote: post #121
bigstrat2003 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Browser makers should straight up remove the JS API for interacting with history. There are legitimate uses for it, but the malicious actors far outweigh the good ones at this point. Just remove it.

This type of thinking is what doomed uBlock Origin. I strongly disagree.

The difference is that uBlock Origin is an extension you intentionally trust and install, while the JS API we talk about are something any websites (untrusted) can use.

Re: Usability Improvements in GCC 15

#140

Post by ahartmetz »

jmclnx wrote: post #4

I hope gcc remains the default in Linux due to the GPL. But I expect someday clang will become the default. Plus I heard COBOL was merged in with the compiler collection, nice!

Clang:

- has about the same quality of error messages as GCC now

- is now almost exactly as slow (/fast) as GCC at compiling now

- sometimes produces faster code than Clang, sometimes slower, about the same overall

I see no reason why the default would change.

Post reply on HN